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Hello people,

on Thursday I have been out in my shop forging a pair of farrier-style tongs for holding 20x5mm flat bar. I´d be glad about some critique and advise. The tongs work good although I had to grind of some of the boss and jaw material in order to make them work...

Here you can see the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Drq9aLOeE

And here is a picture of the finished result:

Hufschmiedezange_fuer_Forum_1_von_1.jpg



Regards

- Daniel

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You really have a nice way of working..good pace and body mechanics.There are simply a lot of things in this video for new folks tolearn from. Fire management, layout of your forge to anvil.est it wouild be just one item.
Have you ever tried a lighter hammer head with a longer handle? yoiu may not like it but for some it is reall good for work. Faster hammer head speed will do the same work and i believe it helps in long term with less body strain..I do not have data to support that. Just a personal thought. One of the best things you do is ,,,you know just wot you will do when you take the hot steel from the fire. That is a huge item for anyone to learn.
I am jealous of your shop!
.

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You really have a nice way of working..good pace and body mechanics.There are simply a lot of things in this video for new folks tolearn from. Fire management, layout of your forge to anvil.est it wouild be just one item.
Have you ever tried a lighter hammer head with a longer handle? yoiu may not like it but for some it is reall good for work. Faster hammer head speed will do the same work and i believe it helps in long term with less body strain..I do not have data to support that. Just a personal thought. One of the best things you do is ,,,you know just wot you will do when you take the hot steel from the fire. That is a huge item for anyone to learn.
I am jealous of your shop!
.
Thank you very much for that nice comment! One has to find a balance between hammer weight and size of workpiece. Use the hammers on scale. If you use a too light hammer you will have to pound as if you are mad -> gives you less control and needs lots of strength. If you can basically let the hammer drop on its own weight you have very little stress on the body cause of the rebound and also a lot of control. Like it is safer working with a sharp knife than with a dull one, if you have to put a lot of pressure behind it the dull one will hurt you worse than the sharp one when you only have to let it slide on its own weight. I am sure if you be as well patient as persistent you will get a similar or an even better shop in the future!

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Great video! and nice tongs!! Lots to learn for a newbie like me! I've been watching a lot of your videos lately lol keep up the great work!
Thank you very much! I am glad that I have been able to help you already. As long as it makes me fun I will keep going ;D!

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Hi Daniel,
Nice vid even if lacking a few of the finer details,

Whilst not denigrating your tongs, (I would like to see the ends a little more rounded/disc shaped), farriers tongs are not the best design to hold flat bar when forging a straight length in, they are more suited to holding and manipulating as when making horseshoes,

For flat bar, box jawed or even side tongs are more useful, they hold the material so it is prevented from sliding out of line, as on the longer lengths as the scroll you are illustrating in your picture,

the short jaws on the farriers style tongs allow material to be easily moved to enable forging curves on edge,just observe how a farrier uses them when making horseshoes.

Good tongs, but not my first choice for general smithing work.

Look forward to your next video (Box jaw tongs maybe?)

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Your technique is fine. Your taste in music is also fine! I make tongs the exact same way......................the only constructive critique that I have is that one should be able to punch the pivot holes in one heat for each tong............with a bit of practice, punching should become more effortless........overall nice demo! You may also wanna try a saline punch lube for the holes, or using coal dust, it makes punching the holes easier.
First thank you! I am just a little bit confused because I made the hole in one heat :)? I sometimes put a little bit of scale into the punch hole to keep the punch from getting stuck.

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Hi Daniel,
Nice vid even if lacking a few of the finer details,

Whilst not denigrating your tongs, (I would like to see the ends a little more rounded/disc shaped), farriers tongs are not the best design to hold flat bar when forging a straight length in, they are more suited to holding and manipulating as when making horseshoes,

For flat bar, box jawed or even side tongs are more useful, they hold the material so it is prevented from sliding out of line, as on the longer lengths as the scroll you are illustrating in your picture,

the short jaws on the farriers style tongs allow material to be easily moved to enable forging curves on edge,just observe how a farrier uses them when making horseshoes.

Good tongs, but not my first choice for general smithing work.

Look forward to your next video (Box jaw tongs maybe?)
Yea I´d also prefere box jaw tongs but I am not yet able to make them... So right now farrier tongs are the best I can get. As soon as I am confident in making box jaw tongs I will make the video dude :)!

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Some folks might not know the dangers of striking the a hardened hammer face with another hardened hammer. Like with the ball peen used to form the jaws. I've never seen either hammer chip, but I believe it can happen. I've got a softer hammer for abusing my ball peens.. and I sometimes remember to grab it.. :P. As long as the metal is hot I don't think it's as risky.. but I felt it was worth saying.
Great video. Nice tongs.

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I like farrier style tongs and have several sets for different thicknesses for using with flat bar and small plate. They are used along with the box jaw to handle flat bar. When I am going to punch holes or slit and drift holes in flat bar farrier tongs are superior to box jaw as it is easier to grab a bar and let go of it without it wanting to get hung up in the jaws. I think the sizes I have are 1/16 thick to 1/2 in 16th and some in 1/8 steps. If they fit the bar correcly they hold really well.
There was another thread here about some edge grip flat bar tongs that sort of wrap around the bar instead of the box jaw design. They looked really nice and would be easier to fabricate. I will be making some whenever I get caught up on the paying work.

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Primarily you are describing what farriers tongs are good for ie manipulating work easily, its a bit like using your fingers to hold work, and they do hold the work securely provided they are set right for the workpiece, however they are not primarily designed to hold long straight workpieces

If you can make farriers tongs, then you are more than capable of making the box jaw tongs or the design you mention (which was accompanied buy an excellent description of the process if I remember correctly), and you don't have to fabricate them you can forge them,

The techniques are the same, only the initial length of the jaw is different (mainly longer) some may need the same length on each jaw, others like box jaws cna be made with either one jaw longer to start and then made into a T to form the box end, or wider sot he jaw can be forged more into a channel section

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Some folks might not know the dangers of striking the a hardened hammer face with another hardened hammer. Like with the ball peen used to form the jaws. I've never seen either hammer chip, but I believe it can happen. I've got a softer hammer for abusing my ball peens.. and I sometimes remember to grab it.. :P. As long as the metal is hot I don't think it's as risky.. but I felt it was worth saying.
Great video. Nice tongs.
Hitting Hammer to Hammer can be dangerous indeed. But if the Hammers are intact and have no fissures and if the force is as low as in that case it should not be a problem.

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Hitting Hammer to Hammer can be dangerous indeed. But if the Hammers are intact and have no fissures and if the force is as low as in that case it should not be a problem.


It never is a problem until ...... Better not to tempt fate and point out good working practices, after being on the receiving end of the results of somebody hitting hardened steel with a hammer, and a piece breaking off 3/16"diameter x 1/2" long which I never felt entering the fleshy part of my hand, I only realised something was wrong when observing blood dripping onto the floor, It did hurt somewhat when the nurse had to probe for it to remove it. The piece that broke was some feet away from where I was standing. In some respects I was lucky I was not bent over the bench at the time, it could have done a lot more serious damage.

Better to err on the side of safety. Use a copper or soft faced hammer PLEASE

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As long as you know the risk, I can sleep at night.. But ask yourself, "does my audience know?"
A fine example like you've set forth is sure to be imitated; A little text box with a warning might save someone some stitches.

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I will either anneal the face of the ball pean used to make the divit or forge a special tool for it. Thanks for the safety advise!


And thank you for listening and taking the advise and acting upon it.

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And thank you for listening and taking the advise and acting upon it.
Do you think it will be soft enough when I take a hammer I usually don´t use and anneal it as soft as it possibly can be to hit on hardened tools like the ball pean in the video?

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I enjoyed the video. We all have slightly different approaches. I make my second shoulder at an angle moving my holding hand to the left maybe 30 or 40 degrees. I use a hafted 13 or 14 mm hot punch for the jaw depression; no worry about spalling. It leaves a crisp depression. I have a power hammer, but I almost always lap weld on the reins, using 10 mm round. It gives practice and it is fun. The face of the scarf is on the flat of the rein, often the 2nd shoulder side, not the edge. I have punched and I have drilled the rivet holes. Francis Whitaker said that he always drilled the holes. For the past 15 years or so, I curve each rein a little behind the rivet area, so that the tongs will hang up nicely without the reins sticking out at an angle. This also allows me to fine-tune the reins so that they are parallel. Parallel feels good to my hand. American farriers' tongs mostly have circular jaws, but that is not so important as keeping the jaws short and light. Riding horse tongs are often 14 inches long (approximately 36 cm).

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I enjoyed the video. We all have slightly different approaches. I make my second shoulder at an angle moving my holding hand to the left maybe 30 or 40 degrees. I use a hafted 13 or 14 mm hot punch for the jaw depression; no worry about spalling. It leaves a crisp depression. I have a power hammer, but I almost always lap weld on the reins, using 10 mm round. It gives practice and it is fun. The face of the scarf is on the flat of the rein, often the 2nd shoulder side, not the edge. I have punched and I have drilled the rivet holes. Francis Whitaker said that he always drilled the holes. For the past 15 years or so, I curve each rein a little behind the rivet area, so that the tongs will hang up nicely without the reins sticking out at an angle. This also allows me to fine-tune the reins so that they are parallel. Parallel feels good to my hand. American farriers' tongs mostly have circular jaws, but that is not so important as keeping the jaws short and light. Riding horse tongs are often 14 inches long (approximately 36 cm).
Thanks for your reply, some interesting thoughts there!

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Just made myself an unhardened Hammer, that is simply annealed after I drifted it to a new handle size. One can feel by the rebound that it is very soft. I can also hammer in dents on the edge of the anvil or with other hammers without harming them. So I guess I will take that one to hit hardened tools with. So you can sleep relaxed from now on. BTW I made a hint in the video at the respective part telling about the Problem. Thanks again for your replies!

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