Extinguishing fire in the forge to Save Coal?

[Crunch]

Hello, all,

I'm a new blacksmith, and since I'm probably wasting a lot of energy using poor form with the hammer, I get tired out quickly.

After 15 or 30 minutes of forging, I'm tired. As a result, I probably spend more time starting a fire than actually using the fire.

So my question is, what is the best way to put the coke/coal fire out, in order to save as much fuel as possible, and to be safest, etc.?

Should I dump a bunch of water on it?

Will it go out if I spread out the "duck's nest" center of the fire, so the coke is all spread apart and mixed in with the raw coal?

Should I try to smother it by covering it with something big and metallic that will deprive it of oxygen and chill the fire by soaking up/conducting away its heat?

If it matters, I'm using a tire/wheel forge that I made myself. And it's kind of tricky to separate the "firebox" part from the "pile of coal" that surrounds it, if that makes any sense (I'll try to take and post a pic later if that helps).

Thanks for any advice.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes. Depending on your coal if may go out on it's own, or you can sprinkle water on it to put it out, or you can smother it or you can spread it out to cool it past burning temp. Whatever works best for you and the fuel you are using!

With your forge you don't need to worry about a cast iron forge cracking upon being watered too much. I like to sprinkle "just enough" water that the coal/coke will pretty much dry itself with residual heat. Others will shovel the entire fire into a metal bucket filled with water and sort the remains later for reuse.

[Michael]

when I'm done and there is still some fire left, I shovel it out of the firepot and spread it around on the forge table while cleaning up and putting away tools.

without the airblast keeping it burning the coal/coke will glow for a little while, but quickly goes out and is ready and coked for the next forging session.

I'll usually come back to the forge table a few hours later just to make sure everything is now cold and not a fire danger.

[Don A]

I usually just spread mine out and let it go out on its own (like Michael said), but you can shovel it into a metal tub or bucket about half full of water (be careful though... lots of steam).

After it cools, you can drain the water out, spread it out and let it dry (like Thomas said), or just use it damp around a new fire.

[Crunch]

Thanks, guys.

I guess I was overthinking it. I just thought that unless you doused the whole thing, it would continue to burn until all the fuel was gone, like the charcoal briquets in a barbeque,

Apparently that's not the case.

[01tundra]

I take all the coal/coke off the top of the fire pot and put it on one side of my forge table, lightly sprinkle it all with water until the hiss is gone, then shovel all the fuel from down inside the fire pot to the opposite side of the table and do the same. That way I'm isolating the clinkers on a single side of the table, which results in less fuel to sort through trying to find clinkers.

Not sure if that's a good approach or not since I'm still a newb at all of this......but it seems to be working for me so far.

From now on, once I'm finished for the day, I'm going to rake all the surrounding green coal onto the fire and blast it for a few minutes to get some of it on it's way to turning into coke for the next fire.

[pkrankow]

I shovel the entire fire into a steel bucket that has a tight fitting steel lid. Cleaning big clinker out is a good idea. I set the bucket on the end of my driveway and it is cool the next day.

Since my fuel stays dry relighting it is easy compared to shoveling the fire into a bucket of water or dousing the fire with water.

Dousing with water can crack firepots, so be careful.

Phil

[Glenn]

I have "turned off the air blast and left the fire" only to come back 4 hours later and with a puff of air have a roaring fire again. That puff of air can just as well come from the wind blowing past or down a chimney.

For me, the only SAFE way to extinguish a forge fire at the end of the forging session is to put ALL FIRE, and anything else hot into a bucket of water. That is fire, coke, clinker, empty the ash dump, everything that was ir is hot into the water. I sleep well of a night knowing that the fire is under 2 or more inches of water.

You can easily recover the coal and coke and let it dry, or use it wet on the next fire.

If you put water on the hot metal of the fire pot it can crack as can the table top. Besides the water and left over ash form a corrosive compound(s) that eat metal.

And remember that piece of hot metal you cut from the end of the stock that took off never to be seen again? Better chase it down before you leave the area to be sure it is not against flammable material and smoldering.

[ThomasPowers]

Water on cast iron can crack it. I have never seen water on mild steel forge pot crack.

[01tundra]

And remember that piece of hot metal you cut from the end of the stock that took off never to be seen again? Better chase it down before you leave the area to be sure it is not against flammable material and smoldering.

My first time using a cutoff hardy was this weekend and I search everywhere for that 1" long piece of 1/4" round stock I had cut off.......worried me for a long time.......finally found it yesterday burned into the sole of my brand new work boot.....lesson learned :rolleyes: !

Good point on the corrosive issue, I should have picked up on that when I had the brilliant idea to put all my coal fines in water in a galvanized bucket, found it rusted badly a few days later and switched to a plastic bucket. I suppose if any water is not flashing off the coals after being removed from the pot, then I'm doing the exact same thing to my cart table.

I'm beginning to think that since I'm still having a hard time identifying the clinkers in my forge, maybe dumping it all in a bucket of water and keeping everything that floats would be a better option for me all the way around. I'm assuming all the coke and green coal will float?

[GregDP]

The green coal will sink.

Something to consider if you'd like to take a break and save coal: Start a wood fire.
A burning long will often have live embers on it for hours.

I'm lazy and cheap. :P But for some reason I like splitting wood.. but I'm no coal miner.

[ThomasPowers]

Green coal sinks, it's a rock you know and very few of them float (pumice).

Yes going barefoot---not wearing your work boots in the shop will make the boots last much longer! May need to invest in an Australian pair of steel toed flip-flops though...

[01tundra]

Yes going barefoot---not wearing your work boots in the shop will make the boots last much longer! May need to invest in an Australian pair of steel toed flip-flops though...

Or perhaps be careful and watch where the cut off piece lands as Glenn suggested...........

[Michael]

I HATE those hot little offcuts, especially as they cool down to black heat so fast.

My whole smithy area is concrete and sheet metal, not so great for the ears or the feet but less likely to ignite. The few wooden structural bits are protected by cement board. Weeds and dry grass clippings that grow or get blown into the smithy (patio corner) get swept out while the fire is being lit.

Anyone with a clever technique of keeping that hot little offcut contained? I had an idea about a soup can magneted to the anvil face to catch the offcut. That'll work with the cutting plate and handled hotcut, not so much with the hardy.

[John B]

Anyone with a clever technique of keeping that hot little offcut contained? I had an idea about a soup can magneted to the anvil face to catch the offcut. That'll work with the cutting plate and handled hotcut, not so much with the hardy.

Use the hardie properly, ie cut nearly all the way through then twist the end off and deposit it safely, benefits all round, you don't ding the cutting edge or your hammer face either

[GregDP]

I don't use an angled tool for 90 degree clean cuts. I use a saw.
For any other cut I simply do not make a complete cut. I've yet to encounter a problem that can't ignored or compensated for easily. But a moment with a rasp or file doesn't bother me. Minutes equal hours, but they can also equal quality or safety.
A partial quench can save some time breaking the uncut.

To better address the initial question though: You've certainly got the right idea by now. I'd just like to note that smaller thin metal cans are likely to get much hotter; sometimes loosing their seal.. And shouldn't be stored near anything combustible. Kinda common sense.. but you never know. Paper is ignited at 451 degrees, a metal can full of hot coals may not get that hot.. but it's something to consider.

[pkrankow]

You can get a clean 90 degree cut on one part of the bar by angling the stock, up or down, to the cutoff hardy. The saw gets you clean 90 fegree cuts on both parts.

You are right, my tightly closed 5 gallon can of hot can be hot enough to light off some things out the outside (and it has happened once with dry leaves) even though the paint isn't burnt off the can. Knowing that 20 feet or more of gravel separates my can of hot from anything more flammable than a blowing leaf eases my mind quite well.

Phil

[Alan B]

With respect to you all for your answers, I would like to offer a different perspective. Around the first part of June, my blacksmith shop burnt to the ground. The only things I recovered were my hammers, tongs, chisels and punches. Everything else was lost.

This was my proceedure for shutting down the shop. I would tear down my fire and spread it across the top of the forge and sprinkle it with water. Next I would turn out the lights and do a visual inspection looking for any glowing embers anywhere. Then I went to the house. 3 Hours later, the shop was gone. My floor was gravel and the interior walls were concrete stucco. One small spark got into a wall and cost me all my equipment and building.

I urge you all to not take this topic litely as my insurance did not cover it due to a clause in our policy. From now on, after I rebuild, all fires will be extinguished in a bucket of water and I will do a 30 minute fire watch prior to leaving the shop. Don't be in a hurry, it might save you a lot of heart ache.

[GregDP]

Allen. Sounds like a job for a 50 gallon steel barrel of water to store your fuel in at the end of the day... I read about your lose, my sympathies.

[Randy]

I never put my fire out. I bank the sides with green coal, sprinkle with water, pack it down so air can't get through the sides and put a little air to it to make sure the center is burning. Then I shut off the air and that's it. This will very slowly burn and turn the sides into coke for the next days' fire. It not only saves coal but turns it into coke which is better to burn. Some times I have so much coke I put it in a separate bucket for future use, as in forge welding. This is the way I was taught from the old timers and I have been doing for almost forty years. Back then they told me the only shop fires were from the wood stoves and their dirty chimneys.

Spreading the fire out has more chances of sparking than leaving it in the firebox where it belongs.