Farmweld Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Thanks for any answers in advance. I've been asked to do a job that involves building a handrail for a set of stairs. Simple enough, but where it gets tricky is there are multiple different radius curves in the staircase, so its not exactly a spiral, and the builders/granite layers have cocked up the treads by making them the same depth, but the heights vary over a 20mm range. Of course the granite has already been laid, and its imported so it can't be damaged, so I can't fab up something onsite and bring it home, and the owner wants it done ASAP so he can move into his house, so I need some way of measuring the different angles and heights such that I can recreate a template in the workshop to work to. I've looked at the Arteferro stair measuring system in their books and it seems to be what I need but I don't know of anyone who has it or has used it. Can anyone offer any opinions? Also does anyone know how much this system costs in the USA as I can't seem to get a price in Australia. Regards Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Here we are only allowed up to 1/8" + or - variation! That's about 3mm. Those stairs would NOT be legal here! Check to see that they ARE there, otherwise there is little choice but to redo them... no matter the cost. No sense putting an expensive railing on a staircase that will be rebuilt anyway! Even if legal I can tell you that those stairs will be a severe trip hazard! Your legs do not like to be tricked on stair heights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 bigfootnampa is right on this- I would not take the job due to the inherent liability involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The question that was asked is about making a template. It was not about liability. I don't see the liability since Farmweld did not produce the stairs. But I know nothing about liability case law in Australia. So you guys might be giving good avice. However, on the topic of making the template on this uneven staircase I don't see a problem there either. Make the template as you would on a uniform stair and then mark it for each step. Then find the measurment that matches the greatest number of steps and use that as the standard. Then for each step that is at variant with the standard you mark the template with a + or - of the variant. Compensate for the variant when you produce the railing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Sounds less than ideal with both the quality of the stair and the scheduling involved. Perhaps neither are your fault, but they could become your problem. Hope you priced the job accordingly, I'd want big $ for what you've described or I'd walk away. That being said there are a few ways to go about this. If you have a portable bender take it and a piece of tube with you to the site. Bend and twist the tube till it kisses the nose of each tread. If you can't run torches inside a finished house this will mean a lot of back and forth to your truck in the driveway. Be sure to put down protection over the stairs, you don't want to damage them. Then using a laser level, take an overall rise of the stair measurement. Use this number along with your template to build the rail. It's a fine line between a tube thin enough to be bent on site and strong enough to not sag when being used as a template. Method number 2 requires a stairway where the stairwell is open. Make a reference point on the floor, measure over to the first nose, snap a chalk line from point to nose, record distance and nose hight. From same reference measure to second nose, distance, hight, angle from chalk line. Repeat for all noses. Use these numbers to either bend a bottom rail or build a mock-up stair out of wood. Third, you can weld up a bunch of telescoping L shaped pieces of pipe, drill and tap in some set screws, and fasten them to the shape of the stairs on site. This gives you a rigid template, but watch out for shifting if it's really long. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have seen wood guys use 1/4" plywood cut into 4" wide strips to follow the rise and run of treads. Used hot glue gun to hold tegether, I would use screws as well. You end up with a long zig-zag piece of the exact tread pattern. smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 bigfootnampa is right on this- I would not take the job due to the inherent liability involved Seems to me the guy who built the stairs would be the culpable one, as long as the railing is to code....I don't know about Andrew but I'd be hard pressed to walk away from a paying job right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckent Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Cover your behind and make sure you have a solid contract if you choose to do it. When you say that there is 20 mm of difference is it in the stringer or the actual tread thickness. If it is the tread can you shim it? Im always a little sketchy working in homes when they're that close to completion. Dont forget about all the time taping things off or moving furniture and fixtures. One wrong turn can be a nightmare for drywall and painters. not to mention expensive when they have to come back for a little touchup. Ive found smart levels and control lines to be very handy when mapping out irregularities. Theyre digital just make sure you have it properly set up. I had a gig installing timber trusses in a finished home and mine was out a degree it cost me an extra two days. Be careful and dont forget to have fun. No job is worth a months worth of migraines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckent Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think I may have worked on a home that used that Arteferro system of railing. I didnt install it and ours was made my a local machinist. He had adjustment built into the posts and small shims for the gaps to make up for any differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmweld Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Thanks for all the replies so far, they have given me some ideas. I should have made the tread height thing clearer, the range is about 20mm but the variance between adjacent steps doesn't seem to be more than about 5mm (eg 175, 180, 185, 180, 185, 190, 185 etc), but when combined with a variable radius curve in the side of the stairs makes for interesting times. I didn't make the stairs so legality of them is not my problem, making the balustrade legal and to fit is. As all the granite has been laid already I can't use any tools inside to cut/shut/bend a template up so I'm snookered using metal. Cutting/screwing and glueing wood may be an option but I'm going to end up with two templates 4.5m tall x 4m long x 3m wide (15' x 12' x 10') with a 90 degree bend about the 3m level and weird curves at each end to transport home. The reason I asked about the Arteferro system was it seems to be a bit like the old Mechano set, lots of short lengths that can be screwed together that have ruler and protractor markings on them. Assemble it on the stairs, note all the dimensions, dissassemble and recreate in the workshop. Just wondered if anyone had used it and what the availability is in the US. I'm probably going to have to hang the balustrade off some hefty posts each end and pick up on every fourth step or so to stop it sagging. The client is still trying to decide between wooden and steel handrail and what sort of posts he wants (trying to talk him out of turned ones as they will make fitting difficult). Fitting the whole lot, about 20m total, is going to be a pain as it will be a one shot fit. I've got to make sure everything is as perfect as I can get it because once we've got it in position its staying there, no chance to remove - modify - refit and any mods will have to be done by the chippy who will be fitting the posts. I'm thinking I may have to do this one on a time basis instead of a quote for the job as there are so many variables involved. Other interesting bits - he's a concreting contractor who is prepared to pay cash if I "look after him", I think I will go the contract route and cover my bum anyway though the thought of cash is tempting. I get to meet the chippy on Monday so I may have some more ideas then. Regards Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Has the building inspector seen the stairs as they are? It would be a shame to have to remake your rail later because stairs did not pass inspection, the inspectors don't care how expensive something is if it is not to their standards. Something I hate is rework due to others fault. You could make overlapping tread templates that only screw together without the glue every 6 or so treads just be sure to have plenty of overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.