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Building codes and how to deal with them


ckent

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Hello all. Just wondering if anyone has any advice or suggestions on how to deal with local building codes and authorities. I am a carpenter by trade ( all though I hope to be making the change to blacksmith in the future). I ve had a few problems with clients who want work done that does not meet our local building codes here in Canada. I know that it sounds stupid but I get trouble on a daily basis from costumers who dont want to have to get permits. I know its wrong ( according to our laws) to install anything after the fact but I cant seem to find any ways to deal with them. The main problems that I have faced are open risers..... which Ive found a way to deal with, horizontal or non vertical members in the railing (climbing hazard), and spindle spacing. (not being able to pass a 4 inch ball through). People usually come to me with some idea of what they want and I hate having to shoot it down due to some minute detail. Some things such as what can be considered a climbing hazard are up to inspectors interperatation which kind of sucks because every time Ive approached an inspector to ask a hypothetical question I immediately get shot down for reasons of liability (they cant tell you what to do or what is acceptable they can only say "yes" or "no"). Ive thought about installing plexi glass over railings however they've said that its not a permanent solution because it can be easily removed later ( cant anything be removed for the right price?) . Does anyone here have any experience with applying for variances or anything like that? I ve been apart of quite a few multi million dollar projects where these things have slipped by and I cant seem to figure out how. Im not stuck in a jam or anything like that but Im just curious as to how so many others have gotten away with it. I know people dont want to give out their secrets because it'll only be a matter of time before other people exploit them and some new law gets passed to stop them but if anyone has any advice I would sure appreciate it.

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Since we are in the land of hypothetical, future projects, and the law (or code) you do have a starting point.

The law, or code.

I hope it is available in its entirety online for free download (some areas this is true, most, well...) Once you have the law, you can determine what is inspected, what grounds it is inspected on, and you can outline for future reference what to look for in which sections.

Not fun, but the way you ask your question this is where you are going.

Next is to challenge the inspectors on the letter and spirit of the law, preferably in a non-confrontational manner over coffee or in another semi-social situation. The inspectors can be friendly and helpful, or a pain. Sometimes a coffee, bottle of water, or jug of ice tea is the difference between the two.

Phil

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I've seen plexiglass attached to railings to pass code which is removed by the owner after inspection, same could be done with wire mesh.
Did Canada pass the no horizontal climbing hazard thing? I know they tried to push it through here but I heard the pro's couldn't document an actual case where someone climbed up and jumped/fell. As far as I'm concerned if a moron climbs a rail and jumps off the gene pool will be all the better for it.... :o ..........If there is no permit have the owner sign a statement to the effect that he knew it was out of code and he installed it.....might work but I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over it.....I've always got on well with inspectors.......Commercial is a whole nother ball game.

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If you want to get around having the argument of not doing something illegal for the client,I've always told them that I'll build them whatever they want..........as long as I'm put on their home owners policy as ADDITIONALLY insured.

But what I think your asking is how can you get away with stuff that does'nt seem to meet code.

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Thanks for all the replys. I like the mesh idea and think that could be something that could even be made look good permanently. I hate doing things that border on the edge of what can be defined as right or wrong. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who think that the rules dont apply to them. I am far from agreeing with some of the rules that I have to operate under but I still try to do it..... 99% of the time. Just last week I was bidding on a job for a couple, one of which works as RCMP here in Canada. Even they didnt care about things like set backs or building permits. Blew my mind.... and wasted 2 hours of my time. haha go figure eh. I guess that all of these rules just mean that we all have to work a little harder and get a little bit more creative. Time to seperate the meat pies from the jam tarts.

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I deal with building inspectors in the Guelph, Kitchener, and Waterloo area almost every day. I can tell you that these cities have no lee-way when it comes to things like railings, stairs, just about anything else of the sort. We have had railings fail for being 3mm lower than the required height. (For our imperial friends, that is about 1/8") I have never dealt with Belleville, but being as it is within striking distance of the GTA, I don't think there will be much difference.

In terms of applying for variances, I personally wouldn't bother with the trouble. There is so much up for interpretation in the code. If you local building department doesn't agree with what you want to do, you would have to apply for a variance at the Ontario Building Code Commission. This could take months to get through this process, and with no guarantee that you will win the variance.

From my experience, if you want to abide by the building code, the best thing you could do if you have a questionable situation is to provide a mock-up for the inspector to review. If the client wants to do it after the fact, I would have them sign off on it. Problem is, these days, even if people accept responsibility, if someone ever is hurt due to the installation, it can always come back on the installer.

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Scottsdale, Arizona will ding you the same way, the code is the code is the code and by golly you had best adhere to it or be prepared to do it over. I designed plumbing systems, fire protection system and HVAC systems until I was hit by a driver trying to put the pacifier back in his baby boys mouth and he plowed into me. At the time I was having an argument with a code authority gentleman in California about how to interpret a paragraph in his plumbing code about high rise buildings and I proved him wrong and saved the owner a whole bunch of money but it ain't often that it happens. Once the job got to the construction phase I had to do it all over again from my bed, some of these guys just can't get the concept of what they have passed into law and some of them do. Just remember that code is a minimum standard and there is always opportunity to make things better, you just can't make things below the standard set by the code. Strive to be better the bare minimum. We are better than that and let the customer know it.

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I had been told (by more than one person) that here in Ontario, to be "legal", railings had to have a stamped drawing (by an architect, engineer or 'other designer' as designated in the OBC); and had to be installed by a TSSA certified welder.

Anybody else know about that?

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All structural work or changes to it must be stamped with a BCIN ( building code insurance number). However there is a way around this which many builders take advantage of. Rather than going to an architect or engineer they get the home owner to submit their own plans to the township and act as their own contractor, thus responsible for things like liability, and compensation clearances for all trades on site. The BCIN itself is easy to get. I dont have mine yet. (hopefully this winter if I keep getting enough work lined up) I know a few people who have obtained it and its just an open book test. However when I first looked at the insurance it was 2000 bucks a year just for the ability to submit plans to the township. I think this has come down since then cause theyve clued into the fact that the majority of builders myself including can just try to submit plans through the homeowner. However if they even suspect that plans were drawen by anyone other than the homeowner they will ask for a BCIN stamp.

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I had a run in with an inspector over a railing at our last house---I was restoring the porch to the original configuration as shown in a 60 year old photo of the house. The rail was just a single horizontal 4" round piece of wood. The inspector said it had to be filled in under as the porch was too high off the ground.

As I needed to regrade the yard anyway I asked him what was the allowable limit---and he couldn't tell me! He knew it didn't meet the code but couldn't provide the cite. About once a year we went through this till I moved.

The new owner tore down the restored porch and put up a vinyl clad one, removed the slate roof and replaced it with composition shingles, etc. I sure hope he left the light fixture in the attic which was a combined gas/electric fixture and so original to the house!

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I once worked on a house where the owner had created an open air Lanai type space. It had pillars, more like sections of wall on 2 sides with walkways between each pillar. It was about 1500 Sq Ft. All during the construction, we the builders knew he was going to ultimately inclose the space with sliding doors and provide HVAC. After he was signed off for framing and insulation, this included plumbing electrical and HVAC here in Ca. We went back in and retrofitted everything to accommodate the sliding doors and HVAC vents and covered it all with sheet-rock. This was before sheet-rock fastening was a sing off item. The owner had the permits in his name and carried workers comp. ins. for the job. What he was trying to avoid was the Tax basis between enclosed space and covered space and the added permit costs. After the final, we went back in and opened everything up and trimmed it all out. That is probably the most aggressive case of rework based on compliance I have seen. I don't know if he ever got caught. If he did, I'm sure he could afford the fines. He owned a town in china the made outdoor furniture for import to the US.

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Here in the states as a contractor I am liable for getting my permits. not the property owner, as most property owners do not know codes or what requires permits. If no permit is gotten. then the contractor can lose his license. Here in Ft Wayne, anything except paint and carpet requires a permit. The permit must be on display near the main entry. IE. taped in the window is the normal place.

I tell owners I have to pull a permit, and it will be to code else I walk.

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Just to be clear for those that do not know: If the job requires a permit there must be a permit, it does not matter who pulls the permit, general contractor, homeowner or specialized contractor, as long as there is one. It is easy to verify that a permit has been pulled if you need to check.

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