Trip Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Hey yall, Well today I had to deliver some blacksmith tools that I sold over the internet, but while I was at the buyers house, I saw a blower that caught my eye. From a distance it looked kinda big, but that's because it was!!!!! LOL I knew after seeing it, I had to have it, so against my better judgement, I bought it. oh well, I guess the power hammer will have to wait. :( The blower it's self is a Champion 400 with a 16" fan, and from what I have read and heard, there aren't many this size out there. I hooked it up to my masonry forge, and BOY OH BOY does it get the fire HOT!!!!!! I had thought about selling it, but after using it, I'm not so sure I want to part with it, but I would kinda like to know what it is worth. Any of yall know? This first photo is the Champion (on the right) next to my Tiger blower, kinda shows how big it is!!!!! Trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 If the 14 inch is ultra rare due to that size alone being too big to turn; 50% harder I believe compared to the regular 12 inch, according to the Champion catalog, then I would say the 16 inch is worth like, ten tousand dollars as they probably only made/sold one, yes? If the 12 inch fan is big enough to feed air to operate 99% of the forges out there, and the 14 takes up .9% of that then the 16 is utalized for .1% of the remainder. The catalog I have gives a warning that anything larger than the common 12 inch is much more difficult to turn. I never thought my 12 inch turns that eaily to begin with. I have the 8 inch fan also, and that is a breeze to crank. I like it best and will flow enough air to operate anything I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Well I used it yesterday, and I didn't think it was all to hard to turn, once you get it going you can turn it with your little finger. So I take it that there aren't many 400's this size out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusb Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 How much????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 How much????? how much I paid for it, or how much for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusb Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I probly dont want to know what you paid for it :D how much do you want to sell it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 I probly dont want to know what you paid for it :D how much do you want to sell it??? Don't really know if I want to sell it :D I have been using it all day today, and let me tell ya, it's a sweet little thing....... well it's not little, but you know what I mean. LOL I looked online, and apparently this blower is pretty rare, especially in this good of condition. From what I saw on craigs list and Ebay, the blowers I saw were (Champion 400's, but they were only 14") they were going for about $850- $900. So I guess I would sell it for $1,500 OBO OR trade to to Little Giant Power hammer. let me know if you are interested in it, Trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Looking in the catalog; the 400 is the 9 and 12 inch. The 420 is the 14" and the 421 is the 16" . Take note this is the size of the CASE not of the fan. The literature states the 14 and 16 inch case is suited for supplying air to two fires or fresh air for a mine. The 16" case 421 model turns 50% harder than the 400 model with 12 inch case, so says the cataloge. Nice find. I was happy to score a really nice 400/12 inch a couple of months ago. Nice find on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 15, 2012 Author Share Posted May 15, 2012 Looking in the catalog; the 400 is the 9 and 12 inch. The 420 is the 14" and the 421 is the 16" . Take note this is the size of the CASE not of the fan. The literature states the 14 and 16 inch case is suited for supplying air to two fires or fresh air for a mine. The 16" case 421 model turns 50% harder than the 400 model with 12 inch case, so says the cataloge. Nice find. I was happy to score a really nice 400/12 inch a couple of months ago. Nice find on your part. I don't think mine is a 421 because on the fan case it is stamped "No 400". seems like if it was a 421 they would have stamped it as so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yesteryearforge Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 I have one like that Been using it for about 8 years Have used a lot of blowers over the years. This is the best blower made .....Period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Keep in mind those blowers you saw are priced at $500 and $800. This simply means nothing! Just because someone prices an item at a certain price does not mean it is worth that. I will grant you that you have an unusual blower, perhaps even qualified as very rare. This, of course, makes it more valuable. A good smooth-working standard champion 400 is worth $200. "Worth" being defined by what a patient man can buy one for. Yours is rare and thus more valuable, but a blower of that size, regardless of condition and how rare it is, is worth very little to your every day backyard blacksmith. You are going to need to sell this sucker to someone with a very large industrial forge, a collector, or a smith that just wants bragging rights. (Or someone with a mine that needs a bit of fresh air. LOL) That's your market, and I doubt that market is going to want to hand over their Little Giant when they can buy a good, big electric rig for $400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Most of these models have 400 cast into the case. Not all, but most. There are many many many models of the 400. They even have 400 1/4 and 400 1/2, but most have the 400 cast into the case. Tru on the "worth". When I pass-on I advised my wife to advertise my antique tractors in the antique tractor publication NOT in the local news paper tell and sell. You'd have to market something like that as it is only desirable to a select few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Sorry for Waking up an old thread, now I gotta find one of these! Lol the largest champion I’ve came across was a 14” an it was massive compared to all the blowers I have, that 16” looks awesome! I need another blower like I need a hole in the head but didn’t know anyone made a hand crank blower that big! So now I gotta find one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 The question is similar to that of anvils and forges, how big a one do you actually need? If you are doing big work you need a big forge with a big blower. if you are doing small to medium work, not so much. Like anvils, it is easy to say bigger is better but the reality is that it may be oversized for your needs. That said, the Champion 400 is a beast. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Well yeah George! Of course I don’t need one… i want one! There’s a big difference! Lol Like I said I need another blower like I would need a 1000 pound anvil to make s hooks with, I have lots of blowers to use already, including some champion 400s and I have some belt driven ones that size an bigger, but but but…. I don’t have a 16” hand crank blower so the most logical thing to do now that I know they exist is to find one an add it to my horde of rusty junk!!!! muahahahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Actually, what you NEED is an overhead belt drive to power all the machines in your shop. Preferably driven by a steam engine. Then, all you would need to do is engage a lever to tighten a belt to drive a blower, drill press, lathe or whatever. And minions to stoke the boiler for the steam engine. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I like your style George! funny you mention that… I do have a big steam whistle I found! I been running it off compressed air! too the wonder, enjoyment, terror and aggravation of the citizens of peavine Oklahoma! and I’ve a had my eye on a pretty big hit an miss engine settin in a yard north of here! it’s been in the county for a hundred years, two brothers ran a saw mill off it till they died an the current owner bought it for a lawn ornament, that thing has duel flywheels heavier than a lot of anvils! Lol again I don’t need it but it would look so much better here then it does there! Lol plus if I had it I’d get that dude up running again and like you said I could start hookin up my junk to it! I’ve also been tryin to track down a steam engine that powered a canning plant here in the county up till the 40s but the last owner has died and that threw a wrench in my gears trying to locate it, My place already is enough to give an osha inspector a heart attack! Lord knows what would happen if I get my paws on a steam engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 This kind of gets into the philosphy and ethics of collecting which we have discussed previously. If you collect stamps, coins, paintings, sculpture, autographs, hummel figurines, salt and pepper shakers, etc. which give you pleasure, good for you. None of these have any intrinsic use other than collectibles or esthetics. In full disclosure, I collect ancient coins and old legal documents. Martha, my late wife, collected old spindle whorls and other old fiber working tools (some shorls and other toold she restored to use). However, if you collect items that have some sort of actual practical use having them keeps them from being used by anyone else. Someone who has a collection of 30 anvils of which they use 2 or 3 is keeping them from being used by 27 or 28 other smiths. This is not the same as saving the anvils or other tools from the scrap heap. In that case the intent is often to pass them on to other smiths sooner or later, sometimes after repairing or reconditioning them. Most folk I know who do that may make a modest profit, e.g. Thomas' hoard of last year, but I wouldn't classify them as "flippers." Also, someone may be acquiring tools with the intention of having them used by students at some point in the future. That does not bother me. I'm torn in two directions when I hear of new smiths trying to find tools and seeing photos of a barn full of anvils somewhere. On one hand if someone has the money and the desire who am I to tell them what they should or shouldn't acquire? On the other hand, some collections start to approach "hoarding" and do not promote or advance the craft. I have no hard answers but for me I only get tools that I think I can use or that I can pass on. I like to see tools in use. It bothers me a lot to see perfectly good tools used as decor in a restaurant or someplace else. I have seen old spinning wheels and treadle sewing machines broken up to make chairs or planters. Martha always thought seeing a chair made of old spinning wheels was like seeing one made of human bones. Sad and a terrible waste. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmall Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I have the Champion 400-1/4 - it is a 400 that can either be turned by the crank, or the lineshaft pulley on the other side. It turns easily. If I remember the catalog properly, it recommends the lineshaft not to exceed 60 rpm. It's a neat piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 12 hours ago, George N. M. said: This kind of gets into the philosphy and ethics of collecting Oh good grief George! we’ve done been through this before i know your feelings on the matter, I’ve heard your speech many times, an I’m sure I’ll hear it many more i ain’t keeping nothing from nobody! and I don’t have a chair made of anvils I pass on a lot of stuff I find, in fact I just had a new smith stop by yesterday to acquire some stuff to get him started, i even buy the broken an frozen stuff that’s missing parts just to keep it out of the scrap yard, and when I have enough parts piled up to resurrect one I do so, Although I do like finding oddball stuff like a 16” champion blower would be awesome! Farmall, that sounds awesome! I’ve never seen one of those either! do ya got a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Dear Billy, If I have offended you or rubbed you the wrong way I sincerely apolgize. I did not mean to attack or offend you ar anyone else. I was pointing out the problem I have in resolving acquisitions and collecting of tools. And, yes, I may express this mental conflict I have in the future if it seems relevent to the discussion. There are enough folk who pass through here who might find it relevent. Us oldsters can often predict what one of us is going to say about a given topic. Again, I'm sorry if I gave offense. Yours, George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWISTEDWILLOW Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 no offense taken George! No need to apologize for anything, I was the one pickin on you! Lol i guess I came across wrong, that’s the hard thing about typing stuff instead of talkin to someone in person, that’s why I try to use emoji’s to lighten up the tone, So definitely nothing on my part!….. well not unless your holding out a 16” champion on me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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