Rich Hale Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I have heard folks say if you melt copper in a forge you cannot forge weld steel in that forge again. I worked at a horseshoeing school and each student was taught to forge braze a steel piece onto a steel horseshoe using a strip of copper. Most of the time they would melt the copper and it would go into the bottom of the forge. A lot of the coal forges had been there for many decades. The final day of metal testing the copper brazing was part of the test as was forge welding steel. The instructors used a gas forge for lots of the demos as well as coal. Students were shown the brazing not only in the coal forge but also in the gasser. And copper also was melted in the gasser. All of the forges were used for forge welding steel after the brazing as I have done in my personal gasser. The gasser needed relined now and then but the damage was done either from mechanical,,hitting the refractory, and mostly from the flux damage to the flooring. From this experience i just use the forge and not worry about copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I agree, In my gas forge I do both copper (melting and welding) and welding steel without any issues caused by the copper. (now other issues, that I cause may be an issue sometimes...) :) Actually I got it all backwards, I wasn't able to welds in steel in my forge UNTIL I first melted copper in it, Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backwoods Blacksmith Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 OLD OLD myth. Don't know where it started or when. Has been disproved many times. I think it may have been an excuse for not being able to make a weld. If you use virgin blood she has to be over 16. Hard to find. Not impossable, just hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Now, now, enough of the virgin stuff. I was told that the only way to get one was to find a really ugly third grader. I never did any brazing in the forge with copper, it was always with brass. Copper just turned black and stared back at me but brass went right to work. Copper is like my youngest son and brass is like my oldest son, one works well and the other not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Tristan: Weren't you there when we made the quarter Mokume Gane billet? I seem to recall melting some copper in my forge then, the bubbling puddle under the squooshy billet lump thingy, as I recall. Copper or zinc poisoning a forge for welding is a convenient excuse for not knowing how to weld in a forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backwoods Blacksmith Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 In all of the old blacksmith books I have read, they caution you about impurities in the fire prior to welding. One of which was copper. When Jay Kidwell taught me to forge weld, he put copper pennies in the fire just to prove it was a myth. Borax Soap, on the other hand, will keep you from welding. Ask me how I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Think you're the only one to try using Boraxo? Go ahead, ask me. <grin> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Tristan: Weren't you there when we made the quarter Mokume Gane billet? I seem to recall melting some copper in my forge then, the bubbling puddle under the squooshy billet lump thingy, as I recall. Copper or zinc poisoning a forge for welding is a convenient excuse for not knowing how to weld in a forge. Frosty The Lucky. i was there for a penny melting session and I have since made several billets for coins. I did that long before my first weld in steel though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern hot steel Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Ok I'll bite. What's up with borax? I am new to blacksmithing, never tried to forge weld yet. However from the videos I've seen, I thought I would have to use borax to forgeweld? I know I probbley sound dumb. But I was raised to believe that there is no such thing as a dumb questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 we all use borax laundry additive in a pure form for forge welding, its the borax Soap that is a problem, there is a differance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern hot steel Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I gather that when its time for me to try and forge weld. I should have a pure form of borax on hand. Thank you for the info, I'll try out some forge welding next week maybe. If I can up load a few pictures of my first attempt. Everyone,myself included may get a good laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 The common name here in the states for the borax containing hand soap is "Boraxo" and it works very well . . . On dirty hands. You want the laundry booster "20 Mule Team Borax" for welding/ brazing/silver solder/ aluminum, copper, bronze, brass, etc. casting flux. I like to add 1pt. Boric acid to 4pts. Borax. It melts faster, foams a little less and is a bit more agressive as a flux. You can find it in the pharmacy section of the super market or under the brand name "Roach proof." One thing to remember about flux, it is NOT glue, flux only does one thing, keep the steel from oxidizing at heat. If you don't have a good clean joint it CAN force some impurities out when you strike because it's a fluid and can carry solids like a stream carries sand. Just don't count on it. There are three secrets to welding clean clean clean. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunbarrel00 Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 I just recently refurbished my bar top at my restaurant. I have a good amount of copper scrap from the old top and my nephew has a forge. What can we make with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 Look into "chasing and repousse." If you're thinking of melting it and casting billets to scrap the sheet is worth more per lb. If you're thinking of casting objects you'll need to learn the craft and get really serious about PPE and safety. Any molten metal is very dangerous, even a drop of water coming in contact can throw molten HOT metal a long way in every direction. Burns are terrible things. I HIGHLY recommend taking a class or course in casting before doing it yourself. There are a number of ways to make molds to receive melts in the range of copper. You need to know how and when to de-gas it, flux it and more. There's quite a bit to casting best to get pro instruction. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Special Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 I second chasing and repousse. It's traditional for copper, looks cool, and isn't hard to learn. Casting is too high of a learning curve, especially in copper, and mistakes in casting are painful. It's a blast, but best learned in a class or a group unless you like explaining the funny scars on your legs...like mine. Hot forging copper is fun but runs contrary to what you're used to in iron. It's actually easier most of the time to work it cold and anneal it before it gets too work-hardened and becomes brittle. Finding the balance takes practice. Annealing is completely backwards too. You heat to red hot, then quench. But unlike iron, you have a lot less wiggle room. One of the great joys of forging non-ferrous metals hot is that they can have oxides on the outside that melt at higher temperatures than the metal inside them (looking at you aluminum). Think thin candy shell with a chewy, molten metal center...which you then strike with a hammer. It's deeply unpleasant, in the way that second-degree burns tend to be. Oh yeah, and different alloys forge differently; some bronzes and brasses cast like a dream, but fall apart when you hit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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