When are you considered a blacksmith?

[John McPherson]

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King! B) That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The late, great Grant Sarver described himself as an SOB - Sole Occupation Blacksmith.

A (real full-time smith) friend once described me to another smith. "You mean that big, bald side of beef? Yeah, he knows his way around an anvil, but he's not a smith." :lol:

[HWHII]

Like you I welded and fabricated for many years before I started to blacksmith. For a long time I would tell people," I do blacksmithing work ", and like others have mentioned it was not until I gained confidence I could say," I am a blacksmith." I have a very long way to go, a lot more to learn and experience before I would fell comfortable adding the word master in front of it.

[ciladog]

The last time this subject came up I thought to myself why does it matter what you call yourself? Isn’t it about personal achievement, knowledge, ability, and experience?

Rather than get into a psycho or social analysis of why it may be important for oneself to be called a blacksmith, I offer the social norm that what someone calls themselves is usually associated with their vocation and not a hobby or other disciplines they may dabble in.

So how long would the list be of all the things you are?

In the last week I was a:

Blacksmith, I forged in the shop

A plumber because I fixed a leaky shower

A landscape architect because I cut my lawn and planted some shrubs

A surgeon because I had to lance my figure to remove a splinter

A short order cook because I cooked dinner

A mechanic because I changed the oil in my truck and fixed a chainsaw

A driver because I took my neighbor’s kid to school

An IT professional because I fixed a computer problem

A pet groomer because I combed out my cats

Need I go on to make the point?? And that doesn’t include what my real vocation is.

[beth]

well said most of you guys - also francis who said 'when your recognised by your peers" thats a pretty good test of some sort i reckon.. but i would want to hand pick the ones who were appraising me!!! because some would not (and never will) see what im trying to do... but also i like the fact that if your doing the basic act of hitting hot metal with purpose of altering its shape, your a smith. what i dont like is when there is an elitist and exclusive atmosphere around the "title" of blacksmith, like some of us poor mere mortals are simply not the right material... i dont think this is helpful, it can intimidate the shy and nervous amoungst us, and it makes me for one think, well, i'll not be THAT then.... :)

[divermike]

Beth, one of my lifes lessons was the discovery that every endevour develops its snobs! I was astonished to find some in the Rochester NY comic book shops!! A comic book snob?? really?? I had to step back and laugh. I've seen it in boating, and the old T-Bird club I belonged to. Construction and home inspection, and now code inspection. It all goes back to when we were babies and the world revolved around us, some folks just never get past that stage. Unless they are outright rude, I just laugh and feel sorry for them.
I'm with you though, peer review is a good measure.

[beth]

diver :) thankyou!!! - snob was the word i was looking for :) you got it :)

[Jocko 58]

I was at a demo last year talking to a blacksmith and he said :- I'm not a blacksmith today I'm entertainer i keep people happy by making them things out of steel

Cheers John

[Larry H]

When I passed the journeyman test 28 years ago I thought I was a blacksmith, 271/2 years ago I found out maybe I wasn't, I spent the next 27 1/2 years trying to gain just some of the skills of the smiths I was surrounded by, sadly I didn't have enough time, they started dropping like flies, or retiring, sometimes both, but hopefully I learned something. Blacksmithing is not something you will ever master, the things that were done, could not be believed, even hard to believe when you see it ! ! ....I will never consider myself a Master, mainly because of those things that I have seen.

Larry H.


local 15 international brotherhood of boilermakers, iron ship builders,
blacksmiths, forgers & helpers

[iron woodrow]

good on all of you for caring, sharing, and smiteing. When one of my daughters said she was a cat, i didnt tell her "no you arent" i just offered her a bowl of milk :P

[Timothy Miller]

When I passed the journeyman test 28 years ago I thought I was a blacksmith, 271/2 years ago I found out maybe I wasn't, I spent the next 27 1/2 years trying to gain just some of the skills of the smiths I was surrounded by, sadly I didn't have enough time, they started dropping like flies, or retiring, sometimes both, but hopefully I learned something. Blacksmithing is not something you will ever master, the things that were done, could not be believed, even hard to believe when you see it ! ! ....I will never consider myself a Master, mainly because of those things that I have seen.

Larry H.


local 15 international brotherhood of boilermakers, iron ship builders,
blacksmiths, forgers & helpers

I recently saw a stair stringer forged from 1" by 8" wrought iron at a local sandblasting shop. Every run and rise was a single piece of iron forge welded at the corner. it was about 15' long probably weighed 700 lbs. It sort of humbled me. It was part of a restoration job from a building in NYC. The guys working on it had no idea what they were dealing with. I explained it to them and their eyes glazed over. Weld and grind was all they knew.

[KYBOY]

I think it depends on the individual.. I wasnt confortable calling myself a blacksmith for several years..I started welding when I was about 15..I learned early on that layng a pretty bead dosnt make you a welder.
For me personally its more being comfortable in a skill level than it is just "doing it"..Thats just the way I was taught..

[GregDP]

I didn't really want to comment on this when I first read this thread. Mostly because if I commented on everything I had an opinion on folks would get really tired of seeing my little name and picture. If I'm not at my j-o-b or in the shop, then I'm absorbing what I can from this place or sharing my own attempts to become an accomplished blacksmith on my blog. In other words: I'm long winded and read a lot.

It occurred to me last night though how to sum up how I feel on the subject. I thought it might make some of ya'll smile, if it does the it's worth it. :) You can't please everyone or be everything to everyone. This is just a joke with some truth.

A few people have mentioned plumbers, electrician, and a few trades requiring formal education whether in a school or on the job. Maybe a blacksmith is better compared to another label. (And I know this is a family site so..)

****ographer.

United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart once said on the subject of what is ****ography - "I know it when I see it"


But I dunno.. I think what does it for some people doesn't for others. Some stuff is down right weird. Some is so mundane it barely qualifies. Some is fake and some is cheap. Even the amateur stuff has an audience.

I'm a blacksmith. I'm also a brother, a son, and when I became a husband almost a year ago I took some time away from blacksmithing so I could focus on a j-o-b and my relationship...so one day when we're ready I can be a father. I don't think I ever stopped being a blacksmith. I am a lot of things to a lot of people. Ideally one day I can be an ornamental ironwork fabricator to supplement my blacksmithing hobby. Hopefully have a chance to even do it professionally. I just like metal.

[ianinsa]

diver :) thankyou!!! - snob was the word i was looking for :) you got it :)

With some the 'S' is silent!

Blacksmiths can in many ways be compared to wheelrights- some make wheels for buggies others make wheels for wagons, some make both, some make one well but not the other, some make both well and some make neither well but make them none the less- yet undisputably 'all' are wheelrights .

From personal experience I have employed/met/visited etc. blacksmiths all over the world some with 'papers' some without and I believe I have learned something from every single one, so I only the insecure(or snob'with silent s') have issues about others calling themselves 'Blacksmith'

On a different tangent though is how you deem yourself===== I was at a smithy 2 days ago and Alan shall remain nameless :D where his weed-ridden scrap-pile could be used to teach people as to what amaising and wonderous things can be wrought from iron(wow,wow,wow)

And in this, your own skillset (by your own standards etc)could be determined .So look at how good/bad are the items that you deside to discard?-- not throw away-- Heaven forbid-- as we all know, smiths are hoarders! :D :rolleyes:

Your scrappile will 'tell' a lot.

Ian

[Kendall P]

Why not just cut to the basics of the question. If you are makeing a living doing it, you are a professional. If you arent makeing a living doing it your either semi retired / retired / hobbyist / amature.

Being a blacksmith in my mind ment you where a tradesman that used their skills in blacksmithing to make money. I understand why people want to call themselves a blacksmith if it`s something they enjoy doing or know allot about, but if you are getting down to brass tac s about it - A blacksmith was a tradesman with a unique set of skills that was employed to utilise them.

[beth]

there is some truth to that BUT, what do you call a 'Living?' i do many things for money :) all artistic in their nature i will add, my husband is the main earner, and i among other things get money from blacksmithing work. i will never have huge turn overs and lots of employees, and i wouldnt want them, i choose to do many things and scratch about with a small income! my motivation is not always commercial.. having said that, but by the time im an old lady, i will hopefully have amassed many many valuable timeless skills of a traditional blacksmith, so when does that transformation happen, when do i become a Real blacksmith? i think when you can achieve what your aiming to achieve... does it correspond entirely to what people are prepared to buy from you? i think not... and if your talking about money thats vague too, what about swaps and trades, trades that are valuable to yourself and your family.. sorry its splitting hairs, but thats in my nature when i feel like a definition can be more accurate. its not really to do with money wether your a certain thing or not, thats just an indicator that your skills are valuable to those around you....

[Francis Trez Cole]

I recently saw a stair stringer forged from 1" by 8" wrought iron at a local sandblasting shop. Every run and rise was a single piece of iron forge welded at the corner. it was about 15' long probably weighed 700 lbs. It sort of humbled me. It was part of a restoration job from a building in NYC. The guys working on it had no idea what they were dealing with. I explained it to them and their eyes glazed over. Weld and grind was all they knew.

last month I ran across a yellin gate that the people at the estate had painted the flowers, leaves and cork screws were all painted with enamel paint while the rest was in sad shape loose collars and deterioration of the iron.

[double_edge2]

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King! B) That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

The late, great Grant Sarver described himself as an SOB - Sole Occupation Blacksmith.

A (real full-time smith) friend once described me to another smith. "You mean that big, bald side of beef? Yeah, he knows his way around an anvil, but he's not a smith." :lol:

The what!? Late!? When did this happen.,.!?!? That can't be right !

[divermike]

Ian,
I've got a scrap pile of discarded projects that did not make the muster. I remember when I first got started viewing another blacksmiths pile and thinking of all the "treasures" I saw there. Yesterday I was showing a prospective student my pile and he got that look, I recognized it and chuckled to myself. It is my fervant desire to spread the joy of blacksmithing, and yet I have only a small amount of the knowledge that the masters work with, nonetheless, I shall continue till the day I can no longer lift a hammer, that may be some time, I'm working with a torn rotator cuff and that has not stopped me, just slowed me down! In my mind I'm a blacksmith, but not the same as the boys at the Colonial Williamsburg forge, they forge in a way I am unfamiliar with!!

[Timothy Miller]

last month I ran across a yellin gate that the people at the estate had painted the flowers, leaves and cork screws were all painted with enamel paint while the rest was in sad shape loose collars and deterioration of the iron.

Sounds like a business opportunity.

[a62rambler]

I don't know the answer. I apologize if I'm a bit verbose in pointing out some facts. I think today that all would consider heat treating steel as a skill required for anyone claiming to be a blacksmith. Yet, the term blacksmith comes from a time before steel was used. You can't heat treat iron. Some today who are talented work only with a gas forge and some work only with coal. If a person isn't skilled with both are they then not a blacksmith? When blacksmithing was an occupation, they used only charcoal. I have yet to forge the first piece yet I've said I'm making a smithy. Should I not call it a smithy because I am not a blacksmith. What should I call it? It has a forge so maybe it is a forgery. :D

Someone said that if you made a living doing it, you were a professional. However, to be a profession there must be formal education and the group must publish a journal. This is part of what is required to define something as a profession. So Blacksmithing must then be a vocation. I don't know if Mr. Haberman or Mr. Hofi attended any school of blacksmithing yet I don't think anyone doubs they earned the title Master Blacksmith. I am curious to know if any of the well known and recognized masters of blacksmithing have a definition of when you are a blacksmith. Just a guess, I doubt they care who calls themself a blacksmith. I bet they care more that people continue to learn the craft and skills. I bet they spend more time pounding iron then pounding a keyboard (advice I would to well to follow). ;) Is a novice blacksmith a blacksmith? If not, then they are a novice what? If you have to have a certain amount of skill or training to call yourself a blacksmith, why would you be a novice? If you are not a blacksmith can you own a smithy or does it not beome a smithy until you have reached some level of training or experience to be a blacksmith? If a person worked in an area where they made tools for farm and home use in some third world country but had simply picked up a hammer and a chunk of metal and begun heating and pounding scrap into those tools, when do they become a blacksmith? Or are they never a blacksmith because they don't make twists and hearts etc... on their working tools? If a person makes works of art with hammer and forge are they not a blacksmith because they've never made even a single set of tongs? Is a bad blacksmith not a blacksmith?

I have fished but I've never entered a tournament and can't have won one obviously. I've never received instruction from a master fisherman. Am I a fisherman? I know nothing about muskie fishing so am I not a fisherman because I haven't fished for every kind of fish. I've only fished in the ocean once and caught only little sea bass. Am I a fisherman or not? I often outcatch my brother, much to his dismay, but I've never even fished for salmon. Am I a fisherman? I taught myself how to fish so I don't have formal training or education in fishing. I've never worked for a fishery and didn't take fishing in college. Am I a fisherman? I've never made any portion of my living from fishing. I have however fed myself and others on the fish I've caught. Should I stop claiming to be a fisherman? If I am not a fisherman, then what do I call it when I take rod and reel to the lake. Am I fishing or is that something only fisherman can do?

[Timothy Miller]

This thought occurred to me this morning. You're a blacksmith when you can get the job done using the tools of the trade otherwise your just practicing.

[ianinsa]

@divermike,

I have been at this game for well in exess of 25 years and relatively sucsessfully too, With a fair number of jobs running in exess of $250 000, I have employed at times up to 10 smiths with 20 helpers and I am not prone to the glazed over look easily . I recon this was the first time in say 12years that this had occured.

Ian

[SReynolds]

I have been trained by two "blacksmiths" One is a welder/fabricator who welds much of his projects with the mig and uses jigs to create scrolls etc. He works daily as a welder/fabricator and performs blacksmithing for himself and for a histsoric village.

The other fellow was old school and he considered it sinful to use a jig, a mig welder and a drill bit. I think he also thought you must wear the old time clothes too. Cotton, not poly-blend either!!!

As you can see, I was quite confused in my first year or two what I was doing.I wan't sure if it was metal fabrication or blacksmithing. Now I don't care what others think. I'm having fun building things.

[Ratel10mm]

I agree in principle with Beth & D_E2's definitions. For myself, I say I'm trying to be a blacksmith in my spare time. But I'm more attracted by the art or practical art side, than making tools & machinery.

[BlackHammerForge]

In the first class I took, the instructor stated he didn't consider himself a blacksmith until he could forge weld whatever he needed to and could also make a rose. That's the skill set I'm working for and then I'm sure there will be additional criteria before I take up any titles. But it sure is fun learning.