I have a right to know what you know

[Glenn]

I have always wanted to make knives and have attempted with no knowledge making a few crude knife shaped objects. A little over four years ago I was looking at some pattern welded blades at our local knife store and decided I wanted to make something like that. So four years ago I joined this forum. I started a thread that I wish I could delete. I straight up asked how to make damaskus steel. I spent a few minuts reading about it and just up and asked my question in this forum.

Although the answers to my thread were far from what I expected it was indeed the best advice I have been given. Graham Freeden and a few others gave me the best advice. They told me on other words to stop what I was doing. That I should slow down, read read and read. Then I should learn basic smithing skills and take it slowly learning one step at a time. Remember this was four years ago. So at the time I took the advice a little on the harsh side, I was not rude to them when replying to the thread and in fact thanked them for the tips. I was upset that I was not going to get the damaskus tips I was looking for and never came back to this forum till a couple months ago.

I have spent the past four years reading and talking to the few people I know that have had some black smithing experiance. I have read and studdied so much in the past four years and just a couple months ago I felt ready to attempt my first forged blade. I came back to the forum and re-read my first thread and shook my head. . . The questions I was asking made me turn red! They did not make any sence and if they did they were so basic that it really made me look stupid. So I messaged Graham back and thanked him for his great advice. The reading I have done in the past few years has helped me make a decent first knife. I have spent the past couple years playing around with metal, getting the feel for how it moves under the hammer. If every one would have just said "here is what you do" I would have tried it, failed at it and gave up on it. So now I take the time to try to learn things on my own and only try to ask the questions needed to clear up some of the really confusing things that simply do not make sense to me. I usually ask a question and have an answer to go with it just to see if I am on the right track. At the same time sometime I like to try something out first and then try to figure out why it did not go as planned.

Metal99
WELCOME BACK !!
This is the very reason we keep your membership stays active, so you can return when you are ready.

Others may want to re-read the post again, it explains a lot of things that happen and why.

[metal99]

Thanks Glenn! I'm glad I came back. Always something interesting to read here :) lots of good people too.

[Ramsberg]

Hey Metal99,

I have a question. It is in regards to your journey to where you are now in metal working. Did you get sidetracked by the alure of working hot metal under the hammer during your quest for knife production?

I ask because I got started in blacksmithing because I was getting into wood carving and found that the best and most expensive were produced by hand by blacksmiths. So, I figured that with enough study and work I could produce some chisels that would at least be usable. What ended up happening is that the hot metal kinda took over and I never really got to the chisel production. Just droped the wood carving and went with blacksmithing.

Great story by the way, it really goes to show where real motivation can come from!

It also shows that some whom first appear to be "a waste of time" , are actually often the most worth while of attention.

Caleb Ramsby

[Ten Hammers]

Small Potatoes makes an exceptional analogy (twice actually).

Learning to speak a foreign language is interesting yes. In some cases you have to learn to think backwards.

I have a friend that indeed did have a stroke. He was a dental tech by trade. Studied with Bill Moran and Frank Turley. Very well read and also well skilled. The stroke took his skills upside down at least. A fine German lady in physical therapy found out he was a smith. She gave him a hammer and a block of wood and said " you hit here ". He will tell you today that was one of his saving graces. He may not be back 100% BUT he is here and hammers sometimes when I'm set up at events. He will indeed try and teach when asked.

Metal99, glad you made the trip back. Also glad you have learned. Your posting is a prime example to read.

[knots]

My understanding of entitlement is that it either must be granted or earned. This forum grants entitlement to a wealth of information both to menbers and to non-members by the simple gift of access to a massive quantity of valuable technical information, opinion, experience, and insight. As with life not all gifts are understood. Their value and relevance may not even be recognized, or even possibly ever fully accepted or appreciated.

Do you have the right to know what I know ? In the global sense, no. At least there is no obligation on my part to provide knowledge or information to you that I do not wish to share. To the contrary it is my entitlement to choose to give that information up to you or not . The fact that many choose to freely offer the gift of our views and experience is what makes this forum worth the effort to read and post to. It also makes the inevitable misunderstandings and mis-steps tolerable.

However, once posted, any un-copyrighted content on this forum becomes public information and accessible to just about anyone. This includes the robotic programs that sweep everything into the cloud. This entitlement is granted by the simple act of placing information into the public domain for all to see and use as they see fit.

Ultimately we must each find our own way . The gift of shared information should serve only to make that task more accessable.

Staff Correction: all postings on IFI are Protected under international copyright laws, so there is no such thing as UN-copyrighted material posted.

[metal99]

Hey Metal99, I have a question. It is in regards to your journey to where you are now in metal working. Did you get sidetracked by the alure of working hot metal under the hammer during your quest for knife production? I ask because I got started in blacksmithing because I was getting into wood carving and found that the best and most expensive were produced by hand by blacksmiths. So, I figured that with enough study and work I could produce some chisels that would at least be usable. What ended up happening is that the hot metal kinda took over and I never really got to the chisel production. Just droped the wood carving and went with blacksmithing. Great story by the way, it really goes to show where real motivation can come from! It also shows that some whom first appear to be "a waste of time" , are actually often the most worth while of attention. Caleb Ramsby

Caleb, I started with stock removal blades wich were no good because I was only using mild steel. Quite a few years ago I ran into a situation while repairing a truck box that I needed to modify a pry bar to get in and pop out a dent. So I grabbed the O/A torch, heated it up and shaped it to what I needed. Thats when I relized "WOW that was cool" I then proceded to play around with the torch and make some things. After a lot of reading and building up some tools for metal working I am almost ready to start going as a full time hobby. It was around that time that I popped in here and asked how to make damaskus. Now I feel bad for barging in and asking. I feel that I am on the right track now because of all the reading and trial and error and more error.

. Metal99, glad you made the trip back. Also glad you have learned. Your posting is a prime example to read.

Thank you Ten Hammers I am glad to be back.

[beth]

i have the same problem myself when asked an inappropriate question - to reply with two fingers, or only one :)
sorry stuart couldnt resist :)

[beth]

although, i have to say in the noobs defence, two of your fingers stuart might be three of my little ole ones, or half a finger off john B's hand.... tricky.......... ;)

[Frosty]

although, i have to say in the noobs defence, two of your fingers stuart might be three of my little ole ones, or half a finger off john B's hand.... tricky.......... ;)

It's not the size of the finger that counts Beth, it's the thought. Splendid response, good communications skills are important. <wink>

Frosty The Lucky.

[John B]

Half a finger's better than none....in certain circumstances

[female_blacksmith]

Wow, this took some reading and thank goodness we are all so different and all react in different ways to the same questions. This site is new to me and not being very computer savvy I do struggle to find information at times, but I am trying to check in every day and find out new things. More so because I work alone and know no other blacksmiths nearby so this site is invaluable. Being new, I am also extremely grateful to every single person that has posted an answer to my questions.
For myself personally, I love to share my knowledge with anyone that is interested and infact, if I see metalwork that I think would benefit from forging skills and would really improve their design and open up their world to even greater things, I speak to that person and ask if they would be interested in learning basic forging skills and offer to teach them. I really do not mind if they take what I know and go on to do even bigger and better things than me. I really want them too. I want them to share what I know with the world so that ' pure forge work ' never dies !

[GNJC]

I agree with f_b, this has taken some reading... but interesting.

A lot earlier I mentioned that the Industrial Revolution relied upon free movement of ideas; this was rebutted by mentioning patents and commercial secrecy, fair points. However, there were also a number of lecure venues and fora for the advancement / sharing of ideas in the major industrial cities such as Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow and London. Because they had the protection of patents, engineers felt free to publicise their ideas and call upon (challenge!) others to improve upon them. All to the common good.

Difficult to summarise a concensus on the thead - if there has been one.

Perhaps it is fair to say that nobody has an absolute right to another person's knowledge; but, there is a strong moral obligation on those with knowledge to share it with others who could benefit from it. All to the common good!

[beth]

well said female blacksmith and giles :)

[Yetti]

I agree with f_b, this has taken some reading... but interesting. A lot earlier I mentioned that the Industrial Revolution relied upon free movement of ideas; this was rebutted by mentioning patents and commercial secrecy, fair points. However, there were also a number of lecure venues and fora for the advancement / sharing of ideas in the major industrial cities such as Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow and London. Because they had the protection of patents, engineers felt free to publicise their ideas and call upon (challenge!) others to improve upon them. All to the common good. Difficult to summarise a concensus on the thead - if there has been one. Perhaps it is fair to say that nobody has an absolute right to another person's knowledge; but, there is a strong moral obligation on those with knowledge to share it with others who could benefit from it. All to the common good!

I see trade shows and art shows around me all the time for ideas. stuff I have never seen before or a new technique I haven't tried. loads of great info can be obtained just taking picture of how stuff is done. if you want to make end roads to the future of the crafts go to a show or two, you will see most people aren't sitting on their hands.
http://www.artfair.org/tools/artist/directory.jsp this is one of the local shows I go see every year.

[Ten Hammers]

I believe you will find that there is indeed free movement of ideas here on this site.

[Larry H]

Well after reading all this, here's my two cents.....I have mixed emotions about this topic. During the seventies when I embarked on this, it cost me, first, I had to buy an engine for the truck of the person who was teaching me to shoe horses.Me, my wife and three year old son traveled with all of our belongings to Arizona and back, eating hotdog casserole and spaghetti ( when we were lucky enough ) I spent four years working in a welding sweat shop for three dollars an hour, and slept, all three of us in the same bed, with the dog ...under furniture blankets because we didn't have five dollars to put kerosene in the oil burner for heat, and behind in the rent.
When things started to turn around, I shared my meager skills with all who asked. After I became a Journeyman smith, my sharing became ten fold, we all shared what we knew, and everyone grew. Then, when I started meeting other smiths my attitude started to change. Example....in the early 90's a well known smith called me and asked if I was interested in starting a blacksmithing group, I was very interested. We put an ad in the newspaper, for all interested parties to contact us, we had both phone numbers listed. After a few weeks we talked and were to share our lists...I gave him my list and he said "I don't have my list in front of me , I'll give it to you later " Later never came. About a month later I said " you have no intention of giving me the list or starting a group do you?" he said ..."no, I just wanted to know who my competition is". He later started his blacksmithing school. The next few years yielded varied but similar results.
These days I have to know if you have the hunger for the trade, I still get a kick in the nads every now and then, because I'm a bad judge of character. I do still have a weak spot for the young smiths just starting out, especially with families, as I identify with their struggle. God bless my wife for standing by me through all of that ! ! ! Now, after years of honing my skills, and becoming a cynic, I'm once again starting to share my knowledge, but, for now I'm picky, I have had people claiming my work as theirs, recently, it irks me to no end. If you think you deserve it, you don't....if you thirst for it, maybe you do.
Many times, the respect for a smiths knowledge isn't given, and that tends to shut us down. Ian, has the thirst, and has reaped many rewards as a result, (as well as a few others, some here) he even learned something in my shop, that in the right hands, superquench works ! ( and a few other tid bits ). Us old geezers have absorbed much knowledge through the years, including not to impart that wisdom willy nilly to just anyone, just to those who respect, and/or possess the heart of the smith.

[Ten Hammers]

Well spoken Larry. Thank you. Ian was indeed a treat.

[Larry H]

I'm sorry,...I forgot to mention the thirstiest......can't call him a newbie any more...Dave Custer, I admire his gusto and skill at his age, keep it up Dave, you may surpass us all someday

[Bentiron1946]

I have just read through some of the comments here and thought I would add my tow bits worth. I for one wouldn't have the knowledge of metalsmithing I now have if it weren't for others answering my questions starting back when I was a child. I have read through dozens of books but sometimes they don't equal the asking of an old hand at metal working who is willing to answer a single question from a beginner. I read books to learn how to cast and did a fair job of it but after talking to a real live foundryman I learned so much more and he was so free with his information. He never was grudging with and answer no matter how dumb it was. He said someone answered all his questions and so he was answering mine. The has happened to me with blacksmiths over the years. The really good one share their knowledge willingly and with the knowing that if they don't it will die in their thick skull and be lost forever. Now the not putting your knowledge out there for anyone and everyone is a sin, especially if it dies with you because you have done a disservice to the trade of blacksmithing. Share your knowledge! Don't begrudge the dumb question no matter how many times it is ask, sometime or another in someone it may stick and thus it will live on.