Steve Sells Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 On a related note, I also teach Jujitsu. I had a male student early 20's that felt the same way about woman, he stated that no woman can ever hold her own against a man, no matter what her training. Si to proved him wrong, I had a friend send his then 17 yr old daughter to my school, and pose as a beginner, I pair her up with my male student to shopw her the basics and let the games begin. It started out fine, but after a short while, we all heard a thump, and saw he was on the mat in a very painful wrist lock. Ya see I forgot to tell him she was 17, but she has also ranked number 4 in ADULT women's full contact karate. He had a good lesson to not assume ability by appearance. I also remember when I had a chance one day to work with this 80+ yr old man who spent a good portion of the day placing me in such painful locks with little to no effort on his part, I am 6'2" and 18 stone , what was the "old man's" name? Grand Master Wally Jay, founder of Small Circle Jujitsu. Young or old, large or frail appearing, we should not discount a persons potential or present ability because of our faulty and prejudiced assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Stewart, I think dealing with good folk of the NOW would be a walk in the park compared to dealing with a bunch of perturbed female blacksmiths!!! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Its nice to see so many folks ranting and raving about an un-named individual who said something one person heard having a very short sighted opinion of who or what gender can “really be a smith” but that type of thing goes on all the time. It very much reminded me of the assnined notion that because I use a gas forge and fabricate using Miller electric, I lack what it takes to forge weld and therefore I am not really a smith either. Okay. What I try to do is practice forgiveness and let one’s work stand for itself. It doesn’t take much research to find an abundance of females in most any said trade where the level of work is a professional chore to match or beat. I just hope that the opinionated individuals can find their way out into the world and recognize the abilities and works of others based on what it is. I wish them better luck. Now my ranting is over. Spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Maybe it's just a spoof and they want to locate all of the female smiths. A stalker??? I'm kidding!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Maybe it's just a spoof and they want to locate all of the female smiths Somehow getting the Ladysmiths spitting fire and brimstone doesn't seem to be the safest way to make friends. Hades hath no fury.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Interesting thread. A few mentions have been made of women being 'historically' excluded from the craft here in the UK. In fact a woman could have and work in her own workshop, almost as Phil has said.; the loophole was for widows, any woman whose husband died and left her a business had exactly the same rights and reponsibilities in law as a man, even to the point of employing a daughter! The only area this did not apply was in the three professions (Church, Bar & Medicine). There certainly are some things that men are, generally, better at than women and vice versa, but smithing is clearly not one of them. I think it is just a case of numbers - fewer women smiths means fewer top women smiths q.e.d.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I particularly like the term given to female blacksmiths in history, it's what my other half calls me, the "Blacksmithstress" I nearly used it as my log in name but written it looks like "blacksmith stress" which is not quite as catchy as what it's meant to imply-- "blacksmith mistress" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think the UK is perhaps an honourable exception when it comes to women smiths, because we were by and large unshackled by the guild system (an import of dubious quality), and thus did not have to adhere to any silly laws or conventions concerning the gender of blacksmiths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Although women smiths are historically rare, they seem to be less rare than female practitioners of other trades. Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think the UK is perhaps an honourable exception when it comes to women smiths, because we were by and large unshackled by the guild system (an import of dubious quality), and thus did not have to adhere to any silly laws or conventions concerning the gender of blacksmiths. Don't think so http://www.blacksmithscompany.org.uk/Pages/History/History_Home.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hopfinger Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Don't forget Lorelei Sims. One of the first, if not the first, blacksmithing books I read was written by her. http://www.blacksmithchic.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 women blacksmiths were not even insurable in uk till the 70's........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan P. Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Don't think so http://www.blacksmit...istory_Home.htm Think what you like, the history in your link spans about 200 years and nominally covered a radius of 4 miles around London. Not exactly comprehensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Where do you get 200years from, evidence for a blacksmiths guild dates back to 1299, Incorporation as a livery company came by Queen Elizabeth the first in 1571 So 700 years plus according to when I was taught to do add up's and takeaway's, and I think its a fair assumption it didn't just happen Jan 1st 1299 Was Tijou a member in the 1700's when he did the original work at Hampton Court and Kensington Palace ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I started my oldest a daughter in the shop at 4 and in the blacksmith shop at 6 I have a photo of her standing on a box, in her bibs swinging a 2.5# hammer with her hand and mine on the same hammer as I stand behind her and sort of wrap around her. I cherish that photo. She was in a local magazine at 13 with a trellis of her own design. She paid for 2 used cars and traded blachsmith work outright for a third before she was 20. Then she developed back problems, The back issues are a degenatrive disc diesese, and compression fractures in her back. At 25 she has the knowledge but can not do that sort of work. She can and does work as heater for me. That is when I have a production run she manages the forge, and every time I trun around a perfectly heated bilit is ready and she takes the one I had and either reheats or places for cooling. That requires no great lifting, and she can stand straight. She knows more about cars than the boys her age, and tells them what is wrong and how to fix their cars:) My second daughter was a shop rat as well and making and selling work until she decided she really liked boys, and decided being a girly girl was the path:) She excells at that:) Both of my girls are about 5' tall and 100 # and both were pretty darn good. By the way my oldest got her first official beginners class from Clifton Ralph. Now that was a sight Clifton at about 6' and my 13 year old Sarah at 4' and him teaching her with the help of 3 other experienced smiths. About 100 years of experience teaching her. I was Jealous:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 gee whiz! i realy through the proverbial cat amongst the pigeons here! and terrible glad too. i am in the (very ) early stages of teaching my twin daughters about smithing. they turned 4 today. i am extremely happy with the outcome of this case, and im sure the score is settled! iforgeiron -1 windbags- minus 3 pages...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 im sure the score is settled! Never, at this very moment there is some woman who claims that men cannot cook. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 This isme helping my eldest daughter to make her 1st bracelet on the anvil. If one of them cant do all I can do by the time I push off, I'll be dissapointed. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Now, aint it amazin': Look at the gender of the folks who have responded to this thread.. Not a bunch of women saying, "Oh, yes I can." but men showing their recognition that many women are not only competent but exceptional smiths. I taught a class at the Appalachian Center for the Craft this past summer and every student was a woman, and the class was not scheduled as a "class for women". I thought that I would somewhat alter the projects to more nearly appeal to what women would want to make. I found out, real quick, that cute little jewelry items were not what they were interested in. More sculpture and large lighting fixtures. And this was a "beginner's" class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Not smithing, but amazing work!http://www.annelilly.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Opinions vary. Women see different colors than men. I don't understand " cream ". It's just light or lighter brown. Smiting is the same. PROCESS may be the same in many cases but the end results are different. I know some fellas that are extremely good critics in finished goods work. They give me feedback which I need from time to time. I know a couple of women that give feedback of the same piece but they have a different view. Perhaps it is female view, perhaps not (I guess) but I absolutely know that both opinions are important to me. I don't press the flesh with any female smiths ( read blacksmiths). I do have however a friend that is a 35 year experienced bench jeweler. I see her a couple of times a year. Of course jewel work is for the most part whitesmith. The fact is though that running hard solder or seeing a puddle in ferrous metal is quite similar as is cold and hot forging. We have large in common and have excellent conversations comparing trade from time to time. One of the most foolish things you could do is to try and hold either of my daughters down when it comes to skill and ability. They neither one smith but their skills are indeed quite impressive. I was raised around farm women. Skilled in equipment operating as well as animal husbandry. Anyone that has opinions that women are not capable (physically, emotionally or otherwise) are short sided in their views. Not all men are obviously capable of smithing. Yeah, the NOW nags would be kindergarten compared to a few women welders I know when mad. Beth, nice to see you in action. Look forward to seeing more of your work. You too Coleen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Speaking of woman welders. About two years ago I saw a picture of the awards ceremony of the Welding Institute of South Africa, and all the award winners of that year were women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Slightly off subject, but the first time I realized how strong women were was as a child and being taught to make bread from scratch. Working a big ball of dough is not nearly as easy as it looks, it takes a great deal of hand and upper body strength when it is done right. Needless to say, I "Wasn't doing it right! " . If one looks at a lot of photos from the 1800's most of the women were rather stoutly built, generally more so then their scrawny husband. In great part I believe this has to do with the demanding physical work that the women did, as well as their vocation if they had one outside the home, often they did. If you have ever picked up an arm load of wet wash or hefted a very large cast iron kettle off of a fire, then you know it took real strength. Honestly, if you compared the max weight lifted on a daily basis by a general blacksmith of that time and the weight of a wet load of wash or a large full cast iron kettle, the women were on a daily basis lifting more max weight then the men were. The only true difference in strength is that generally men have more testosterone then women and the more testosterone one has in their system, the easier it is to develop upper body strength. The opposite is also true, the more one develops their upper bodies strength, the greater amount of testosterone one produces. This is why doctors advise aging men to exercise their upper body with weights. On a lb per lb, height per height basis, a women will have a stronger lower body then a man and a man will have a stronger upper body then a women. These of course are vast generalizations, which I detest using, but it is the way that on average men and women are built, there are of course great variations in the real world. Having said all of that, if I had to rank "strength" on the list of skills required for blacksmithing, it would be close to the bottom! I don't care if it is a 5' tall 90 lb man or a 7' tall 300 lb women, it all comes down to ability. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I found this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-454192/Shes-hot--The-blonde-blacksmith.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Should have gone to specsavers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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