eric sprado Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have a Clarke 180en MIG machine. 220volts. Calls for 30amp breaker. For a 15 ft. extension cord is a 10 gauge cord safe. The fellow at the local Do It Yourself store said yes but I'd like to hear it from some of you on this site who REALLY know!! Thanks in advance. Eric Sprado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 #10 copper is rated for 30 amps in free air or buried - and you can go 75 feet at 240v before experiencing a 2% drop. That's out of my electrical handbook which was derived from the NEC code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacksmith-450 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Miller EconoTIG 180, 25 feet here, no problem ! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 #10 copper is rated for 30 amps in free air or buried - and you can go 75 feet at 240v before experiencing a 2% drop. That's out of my electrical handbook which was derived from the NEC code. You have mis interpreted that books information.. The total distance before worring about voltage drop is entirely dependent on insulation type. and ambient temperatures. he never mentioned those, so technically it is not correct to state 75 foot, and the voltage ratings are for up to 600v in the chart I think you are referring to, NEC 310-16. also Free air can be up to 55 amps. depending on insulators and instillation. Free air is NOT a bundle of wires in an outer jacket as is an extension cord, its free air like on a pole in the open, IE open air. Buried is different than free air and even the same wire types have about 40% dif in rating in the applications. He did state 15 ft of 10 gauge, so as long as it is not UF or TW rated he should be fine. IBEW 305 jiw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You are correct and there are notes in my chart that reflect your comments but his application did not go anywhere near those limits so I didn't type the rest of that in the reply. In fact, the publication I'm using ("Wiring Simplified" by Richter and Schwan and is based on NEC 1996) derates ampacity as a safety factor for overcurrent protection . I assume he'll either use SO/SJ cord for an extension or THW/THHN in conduit and in the end, he is still going to be fine with 15 ft of #10 copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r smith Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Eric, 15 ft cord seems short to me, and can you read the insulation type printed on the cord so Steve can tell a safe max length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have used a 220 stick welder that i have used for 5 to 6 years on a 120 foot 10-2 with ground cord and have never had any problems. it needs a 50 amp breaker to run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_m Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I run a Miller EconoTIG on a 50 amp breaker with a 40 foot, 8 gauge cord with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Running a welder on to small a wire can internal damage your machine overtime. As it was put to me think of it as a garden hose. The more pressure (current) you put through it the more resistance you will build up. Something some where has to give. I have a buddy call me up and he has a problem. He is welding aluminum on his syncrowave 250 and it keeps shutting down. I go to take a look. This machine should be running on 100 amp circut. He is running on 60 and the wire is 10 ga. and he is running 225 amps on this machine. It does work but he is exceeding his duty cycle, causing it to shut down to cool, because he is starving it for power and he does not know it. He replys to me well it has always been this way for years and has worked. Being currious I go over to the service panel and the breakers are so hot I can't touch them and they a stuck in the on postion. The circut breakers should have cut out before the machine shut it self down. Something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Thanks to all of you for your help!!! Sounds like I'll get along fine with 10 gauge and my short extension cord. Steve-if and when I get to where I need longer extension cord,I'll talk to you FIRST, Before I go to the store and spend big bucks for a long cord!!! Thanks again to all of you for your help. It's good to see so many folks concerned with safety in all aspects of our trade these days!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 From my hobart 180 manual. 14AWG up to 50ft 12AWG up to 200ft Ref: 1999 NEC. That said I prefer 10AWG for my small welders and 8 for the big ones.Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Running a welder on to small a wire can internal damage your machine overtime. As it was put to me think of it as a garden hose. The more pressure (current) you put through it the more resistance you will build up. Something some where has to give. I have a buddy call me up and he has a problem. He is welding aluminum on his syncrowave 250 and it keeps shutting down. I go to take a look. This machine should be running on 100 amp circut. He is running on 60 and the wire is 10 ga. and he is running 225 amps on this machine. It does work but he is exceeding his duty cycle, causing it to shut down to cool, because he is starving it for power and he does not know it. He replys to me well it has always been this way for years and has worked. Being currious I go over to the service panel and the breakers are so hot I can't touch them and they a stuck in the on postion. The circut breakers should have cut out before the machine shut it self down. Something to think about. I agree I have welded for years over 27 to be exact if a machine shuts down due to breaker and not the machine look at the extention cord first an 6 or 8 level should be first and a 60 Min 100 max amp is plenty I have a 20 ft cord @ a # 8 cord and it supplys a Miller 250 Sin wave with TIG attachment , on a 60 amp breaker . I have never had an issue . I weld everything from sheet metal to one inch steel . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 From my hobart 180 manual. 14AWG up to 50ft 12AWG up to 200ft Ref: 1999 NEC. That said I prefer 10AWG for my small welders and 8 for the big ones. Ken. I am not sure of where you got your license, but a little machine like the 180 is not in the same game as the one asked about. Thank you for clouding the issues. I have no idea what are you referring to in the NEC, 14 gauge is not suitable for more than 13 amps long term in that 50 ft cord, but what do I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I agree I have welded for years over 27 to be exact if a machine shuts down due to breaker and not the machine look at the extention cord first an 6 or 8 level should be first and a 60 Min 100 max amp is plenty I have a 20 ft cord @ a # 8 cord and it supplys a Miller 250 Sin wave with TIG attachment , on a 60 amp breaker . I have never had an issue . I weld everything from sheet metal to one inch steel . Sam Sounds good. Do you do alot of high amperage aluminum welding for long periods? What alot of people don't know is you use to be able to order a Syncrowave 250 with a power correction card that will allow for safe operation on a 60 amp circut. It will not give you all the amperage the other will but allows you to operate it in lets say a garage where you might not have all the power you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Sounds good. Do you do alot of high amperage aluminum welding for long periods? What alot of people don't know is you use to be able to order a Syncrowave 250 with a power correction card that will allow for safe operation on a 60 amp circut. It will not give you all the amperage the other will but allows you to operate it in lets say a garage where you might not have all the power you want. At times I do quite a bit mostly Farm eq. and it does get the braker hot and needs to cool but it will sustain my welding ability for a few hrs . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Running a welder on to small a wire can internal damage your machine overtime. As it was put to me think of it as a garden hose. The more pressure (current) you put through it the more resistance you will build up. Something some where has to give. I have a buddy call me up and he has a problem. He is welding aluminum on his syncrowave 250 and it keeps shutting down. I go to take a look. This machine should be running on 100 amp circut. He is running on 60 and the wire is 10 ga. and he is running 225 amps on this machine. It does work but he is exceeding his duty cycle, causing it to shut down to cool, because he is starving it for power and he does not know it. He replys to me well it has always been this way for years and has worked. Being currious I go over to the service panel and the breakers are so hot I can't touch them and they a stuck in the on postion. The circut breakers should have cut out before the machine shut it self down. Something to think about. 10 Ga wire under the BEST of conditions is only safe for a MAX of 30 amps. so it is NOT working fine if you need a 50 amp breaker, Breakers are sized to the wire and conditions. One thing people forget or dont know is that the Nation Fire Protection Asson. puts out the NEC. So when idiots state they know better, that are talking crap. maybe a pathological need for attention? Breakers nor wire should ever get hot, that is happening form over load, as the purpose of codes is safe transmission of power, heat builds up equals a fire some day. I have mentioned this before, but many insurance policy's will not pay for a fire form incorrect/illegal wiring jobs, they are not responsible for DIY when a license is required, you are screwing yourself by bypassing that. the Contractor Insurance is covering legal work. who is going to pay for a burnt down shop, or loss of life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 At times I do quite a bit mostly Farm eq. and it does get the braker hot and needs to cool but it will sustain my welding ability for a few hrs . Sam This should have Said Does Not Get the Braker or wire Hot and will Sustain my welder for a few hours . we changed out the old wireing and Braker some years back when we Built the new Shop . I agree with Steve building, wireing , should be done correctly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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