Ten Hammers Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Something seems wrong when you have a fella with 40+ years of experience and is rated in the teens. Another man that I know is 30 years experienced as a welder and smith with a rating of 8. I have held in my hands the fruits of these mens labor. Other fellas with questionable skills and a rating of more than 30. thats my story and i'm stickin to it (proud to have a rating of 2 ). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Graduating to an upper level of many trades places an irritating test on patience and discipline required to deal with certain beginners. After years of education and work experience machining and designing, it was hard to bring a high school senior through my machine shop class who didn’t know what the word “diameter” meant. It was harder yet for me to conceive a male human being who doesn’t like shop class. Perhaps in my brain it was depicted as a dislike for me. When I began it was harder to learn from certain masters than others. You don’t always learn by doing it right. Three entities: 1. teacher 2. student 3. books and material. Each can have a rating up or down. When one of the three is down the other two have to be better or work harder. When the student won’t work, it’s a nightmare to try and spoon feed or force feed education. When the material is sparse, badly presented/written etc., the teacher and student have to pick up the slack. An open forum like this is very prone to the excitement of things like blades. I don’t even make blades and the first thing the younger crowd asks me when they find out I forge is can I make them a sword. The negligence of research in what it takes to make a good blade let alone a long one is maddening. That is something Steve will put up with forever and ever amen. Better him than me and I’m not laughing. This forum is wide open and like life it’s a chore to sort the substance from the useless. I know I post some crazy things on here with my own smart attitude and with someone’s judgment it mysteriously disappears. I guess the shoe was unwanted or didn’t fit. LOL If its not interesting or entertaining I probably wouldn’t partake. Spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Something seems wrong when you have a fella with 40+ years of experience and is rated in the teens. Another man that I know is 30 years experienced as a welder and smith with a rating of 8. I have held in my hands the fruits of these mens labor. Other fellas with questionable skills and a rating of more than 30. thats my story and i'm stickin to it (proud to have a rating of 2 ). I don't think the intent of the rating system is to rate the person's skills or knowledge, but it is there to rate the relevance, usefulness, helpfulness and validity of each individual post in the eyes of other members. If someone strongly agrees with what a post says, they can give you a +1, regardless of who wrote the post. The post doesn't even have to be about blacksmithing. If it was just based on knowledge and skills, I would undoubtedly be in the red as my skills and experience are elementary at best (I'll assume you were talking about me as someone with 'questionable skills' and a rating of 'over 30' seems to be more than a coincidence). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If it was just based on knowledge and skills, I would undoubtedly be in the red as my skills and experience are elementary at best (I'll assume you were talking about me as someone with 'questionable skills' and a rating of 'over 30' seems to be more than a coincidence). maybe it was me I have a 38 lol ( I used to be in the negatives for a while, weird huh? I get higher scores when I annoyed more people? Is this the gong show?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't think it would be you Steve as there is no question as to your skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hmmm. Interesting topic. Lately, I find myself coming to this site mostly from habit. I find myself posting less and less because I see the same things posted over and over. I continue to read many of the threads hoping for a nugget of good information about blacksmithing and being creative. I tend to look at posts that are older and have been brought up again. It usually means someone has spent the time looking back in the archives or has made progress with the question. I know I'm guilty of posting answers to questions I don't have practical knowledge about. I mainly do this so I can help sort out my own knowledge or lack thereof. I also post questions that have been discussed before. I'm sure we all have. I would be the professional hobbyist as Blacksmithing is only part of my income stream. OTOH, I have learned a tremendous amount from people here. I can't even begin to say all the things and tid bits I have learned and how they have help with Blacksmithing and in other areas of interest for me. I have also been inspired by many here. As far as teaching beginners. It is easy to teach good habits and difficult to remove bad ones. Knowing the difference is the job of masters and good teachers. I think when someone has a large presence here and "pretends" to be better than they truly are. ( I mean, have more book knowledge than hammer skill ) and they post work that seems beneath their skill level. I think fair and harsh criticism is good. Thats not to suggest using mean spirited words rather strong yet encouraging words. Encourage the person to bring the two types of knowledge into balance. One can't understand how a hammer blow works from only hammering on the key board. Considering this site caters to a huge variety of smiths at all skill levels. I don't think it possible to give a one size fits all way to deal with all the mundane and repeated questions, bad information and the like. Self moderation is the only way. Give and take what you can or feel compelled to and leave the rest. As a beginner, it would be impossible to know the difference until it is applied anyway. What works for me and has been found to be right for me, may well, and often is, not right for others. That bring me to safety. Personal safety is just that, Personal. If it doesn't feel or seem right, maybe it isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Spears, good post, thank you. Just so we clear the air, I was NOT speaking about you Sask or you either Steve. It matters little of whom I spoke in all events. My point is ( was ) that the system I assumed was there to let people know who knows what. Wrong on my part apparently. I have no need to be rated (gasp you mean you can effect your OWN rating ? ). Suffice to say that there will be some with many posts that wish us to think they know things about forging, material handling, welding etc that are the core of this site. They offer no evidence of skill other than their posts (although it is obvious to some of us that they are blowing smoke). Notice I left the other stuff off ( related issues to metal work). These things could be included as well. Rich covered it. So did Spears. This is the net. If a man says that he frequently forges with a 5 lb hammer and one hand I take it for what it is worth. This individual has exhibited zero basic forge knowledge. I speak in generalities simply because I have no real need to attack anyone although I ain't scared of much. It serves little need for me to personally type bad things. SO, this is the net. New people from all over the world come to this site daily expecting to get information on metal work. This site provides this information quite well I might add. From time to time the (dead) wrong information is provided. Somebody normally will get nailed on this and the system continues. Posting opinion about things we have linked to or read somewhere in other peoples experiences is fine. Just so we let people know that this is not our own experience. So here we go. Can be like Junior High School. People involved. So what right ? Well, that is I believe what the thread was started about ( please correct me if I am wrong ). I am indeed not the brightest bulb on the line. I do shine a bit. If I have experience on a question I sometimes post ( sometimes way too long of post ). If I DON'T know I normally don't post but if I DO, I try and make it clear that I also wish to learn as well. Most folks fall into this category. A select few want me to think they know about something but it is indeed obvious they don't.. Spears nailed it well (thank you very much). If you are new and wish information, welcome aboard. If you are old and wish information, welcome aboard. If you wish to whine you may get nailed. If you wish to cause trouble you WILL get nailed. Please note there is vast information on this site and other places. Please don't expect myself or others to do your research for you (although you will be surprised how much help you will get here when you ask properly ). At given times there will be centuries of experience setting at this monitor worldwide. Please respect that and other peoples intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hi, I'm Allen and I'm a Noob. Well not really a noob but I'm trying to learn something new every day and feel privileged to be here with you folks. Most of every time I've posted recently its been to ask for help. Before posting a question, I do search for previous topics on the subject. If I don't get the search string quite right, I might miss something so the idea of someone posting an answer in the form of a link to a previous discussion(s) is a good one. This coming Monday I'm visiting a smith who makes pattern welded steel. He is willing to show me how he does things. Later in the week I'm spending the day with another smith going over hardware and cooking utensils. These folks are professional at what they do but yet they are generous with their expertise and time in showing me the ropes. And that's the same thing with the folks here on this board. Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Allen, welcome aboard. It sounds like you may have more information now than when you made the post above. Visiting a shop where the owner is freely giving information to folks interested in learning is nice. Clearly you will see evidence of the owners skills if you only look around. I have been blessed to visit a few shops myself. I hope you are learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I get a bit annoyed by people getting annoyed by posts they dont like... weird eh, I should stop reading them! My take on it all is people should be encouraged to post more photos of their work. If a new member asks how to make a 'sord' I will be much more inclined to give some pointers if they post up some pics of horribly mangled bits of metal vaguly knife shaped... ie they have put in some effort already. I am more likely to take advice from a 'pro' if I have seen some pics of their work and it is actually any good. Sorts the 'can-do' guys from the keyboard commandos. High post count means zip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 John one of my pet peeves is those folks that post a lot of answers to questions that they have no experience in at all. They read the question and google something for an answer, To be honest that indeed may help someone that can not do it themselves. I also like to see some pics or link to a website so I can decide who I feel has a grip on wot they are speaking about, although I trust a lot of folks on here that i have not seen pics of their work as You can tell from their answers that it is the right stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 " keyboard commandos " :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 i dont think anybody needs to worry at all, it becomes clear who the bulls******s are, and the good guys are easy to find, and, with me, have been very very patient. thank you very much you lovely lot you know who you are!! i have found so much support and help on here, as somebody not formally taught hardly ANYTHING, and working alone, slowly and part time.. we all get there in our own ways and our own time, we all differ hugely, and we should be generous and adult about sharing what we know. thumbs up IFI :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It definitely is a different age. When I started there were a couple of old books and one new book and a number of smiths over 80 and that was about it for a while. And you may not run into another smith for a year. I really felt isolated. Craft school classes and hammer-ins and conferences were very exciting and I'd go home with a head full that would take me a year or more to process. Today is a world of instant gratification. I want it now! If you have problems with the info and comments on here then do a YouTube video and see the comments that you get. I mean they don't even think about what they are saying and if it makes any sense or if it even relates to what you're doing, they just want to bark out something and often in not so nice language. I see so many newbies that have the passion for the craft but are somehow stuck in this internet mentality. They want a power hammer or a press and they don't even know the basic hammer blows! They either want to skip all of the basics and build a damascus sword or spiral out of control hunting for information that can't be simply learned by reading or watching some bad videos by someone else that doesn't know what they're doing. Thank goodness we have IFI. Finally we have a place where we all can get together, not be so isolated, share information, problems, answers, ideas, laughs and help to lead these newbies onto the right path. Now like anything else they have to pull back and listen, but they can choose not to if they want. If that's the case they will either drop out in frustration or find another way. So eventually maybe we'll hear another way to do something. At least they have a place to come and know they're not alone. And thank you all for the help you've given me and how much I've learned by being a part of IFI. Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 A site like this serves a large spectrum of people from blacksmith dreamers all the way up to industrial smiths. I think it is important that all people are treated with respect even if they are asking the same old questions again and again , they are just asking the same questions we asked, or more likely they are asking the same questions we would have loved to ask had there been a wealth of available experience available on a site like this . I started in 94 I am still learning. This place has been revelatory for me as far as learning professional industrial techniques that I, in my specific knowledge base had not seen before, information from the likes of Grant and many others with a wider and greater knowledge than I . I would not under estimate the value of just knowing that there are people out there who do what you do and understand (and I mean that in the broadest sense ).... As someone who has made a lot of friends in the craft from my interactions with people on the internet I would just like to reconfirm the "community" aspect of it all ......It IS a community and the young whippersnappers and grumpy old gits all have there part to play . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Basher has hit the nail pretty well on the head there. When I started playing bladesmith a few years ago he was one of the guys who was generous with the advice and hints (perhaps not allways spoonfed me information, but made me ask enough questions to myself that I got there in the end ). On the bladesmithing ive got quite a few of the processes that just seemed a mystery / dream a few years ago pretty well sussed now, and am happy to pass on the knowledge online if I think the person is serious about giving it a go. It seems to go full circle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 In regards to the newbies: "An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching." Mahatma Ghandi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 randy - so true - practise - thats all any of it takes :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Basher- You got it!! As far as good quotes- I think this one gets it pretty well too.... "The difference between knowledge and skill is Practice" Edward Martin In my mind, I have great skill as a striker, in reality.... I need more practice..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I've been lurking on this sight for some time. I don't post much, as I don't normally have much to give. I enjoy reading through the posts, and looking at the pictures. Several times I have tried to smith something out, got frustrated, and laid the hammer down for a while. I usually come here for answers when I don't 'get' the process and how to complete a task. Mind you I normally just look around on here and youtube for my answers. When I do find the process, I immediatly head to the forge and try it out. Was wondering how to make a triskelion for a while, almost gave up on it, then Mr. Salvati posted one up. Dang, why didn't I think of that! (process) I like this resource how it is. The mods have done a good job so far I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.