iron woodrow

ufsh. (unidentified flying steam hammer)

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i have been offered a steam hammer, the bloke told me 'if yer can get er goin ye can 'ave er" ... apparently he tried it with his small compressor, and gave up after a couple of blows.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157628439741909/

id love any info anyone might have on hammers like it , and running a steamy on air, or steam, and the best way to go about it.... i'd say the outside of the cylinder was about 1' and the length was about 3' the hammerblock about 7" square.(the block is solid to the tup, no dovetail for interchangeable blocks, but the bottom die can be changed.) he reckons when he took it apart it was surprisingly clean inside, and i think it was used, at the mulgrave sugar mill, up to about 20 years ago, when it was replaced by a massey 5cwt. the mill was established in 1896 and i am inclined to think this was a brand new aquisition at that time. 117 years ago. thanks mates, any help would be appreciated. woody.

Edited by Moderator42

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not quite sure why this post is not being shown...

mod note: If you referring to the first post, it is visible. you seem to have loaded in a slideshow of your hammer. Maybe you do not have the proper plug in on your machine to view what you loaded?

If on the other hand you are talking about this one... I see it and posted this reply :)

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If I was offered that hammer, and it was within a decent hauling range, I would be all over it. Of course, one would now have a big bill for hauling, concrete, timbers, plumbing, and an air or steam source. I love the heavy stuff.

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If you need to prove you can get it going before taking ownership; one of the big towable air compressors like is used on road work for jackhammers would probably do a good job and can be rented, at least here in the states...

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A friend of mine had a Niles-Pond-Bemmant 1,500# steam hammer that he ran for a short time on 20HP air compressor but quit after awhile because of the high electrical bills. It would have been better if he had rebuilt the thing as there was a lot of leakage in the cylinder that wasted a lot of air capacity.

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I rebuilt a 750 Niles Bement Pond it has a 8" bore with a 24" stroke takes 400 cfm to run it full tilt. A project like this leads to many more projects, bigger forge, jib crane, etc. ;)

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has anyone come up with a way of making a larger supply cylinder run of a crank, virtually converting such a hammer into a self contained pneumatic? just a thought....if not, ill use the frame as a base for a more modern system until i can afford a 400(!) cfm compressor. thanks for the replies.

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Hey Woody,
On hols at the moment but when I get home I'll dig out the broucher on self contained ross/rigby pnu hammers and copy some of it and post it. They sort of made a convertable type of hammer that may be of interest to you. The tup may not be one piece with the rod, 2 of mine are on a taper and are shunk onto the rod, you can get them off with heat, jacks etc. You will need at least a 125cfm diesel compressor to make that hammer do much.

Phil

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ripper phil,
if i can get this old girl thumpin, she'll do me fine.
i thort itd take a compressor with a bit of oomff.
the block doesnt look too worn, so she'll be right for now....
the bloke thats got her says he saved her from goin to scrap, and thats the only reason he picked her up.
if i cant work out a way of gettin her goin, economically, i might donate her to the museum up here that has a working steam boiler, and see if i cant put on displays for them.

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A boiler run steam hammer is a joy to behold. It is suprising how small a boiler will run a hammer that needed a big air compressor.
The general rule for power (steam supply /boiler size) was 10hp (boiler rating) per CWT. At as low as 40psi up to 90 psi, it can be higher, but with higher pressures we used to find the hammers became very jerky, with lower pressures the movement was more fluid, and elastic.

Phil

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where are you franky? probably somewhere inaccessable? i am.... tell me more about your boiler, i am toying with the boiler pathway again after phils last reply...... phil- how small is surprisingly small, and how do i determine the cwt? i will calculate the cc of the cylinder when i pick her up, and give her a lick of paint.

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Take a look at the dust (paper) cover on the book of Anvils in America. I'm pretty sure Hay-Budden Manufacturing used Macdougal and Porter hammers to make thier anvils.

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I’m not that proficient or well versed with steam hammers or steam hammers converted to operate or run on compressed air. However, I could conclude from the pictures posted an older hammer of that type would run much better on steam rather then air because of the advantage of steams expansion rate. Take a look at the size of the main feed pipe on the hammer before the throttle and the fitted narrowed down adapter to a 1 inch air line. I would suspect you would need a huge air compressor to supply the correct amount or air pressure and volume needed to feed the hammer. If you do decide to run the hammer on a boiler you need a steam boiler not a hot water boiler or a hot water furnace. Steam boilers are typically rated in horsepower. You could get an estimate of ram and rod weight by measuring the cubic inches of each times .2833 or you could simple remove both and weigh them. Once you figure out the ram and rod weight you could seek advice from perhaps a certified boiler operate the best horsepower size steam boiler for the hammer. In the United Sates it’s my understanding you need to be certified to operate an industrial type steam boiler and that is who I’d trust to give good advise when it comes to operating something on steam power. An exploding steam boiler can do some significant damage if not installed or maintained correctly.

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i feel terrible i didnt get a chance to thank grant for his valuable input on this subject before i received the sad news of his passing, a sad loss to the world of smithing indeed. so now i will thank all those who have helped me, in case i never get the chance.
woody

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Woody, calulate the weight of the hammer in lbs or KG it does'nt matter, measure the volume of the head/tup rod piston head etc (112lb to the cwt), if you don't know exactly make and assumption you will be close, eg they did'nt make a 3 5/8 cwt hammer, it is normally 3 or 4 cwt. If you want give me the sizes and I'll work it out. You of course would have been taught how to calculate weight of materials at tech I assume. (qld/nsw rivalry here). Machineries encylop gives the rating as 10hp of boiler per CWT of hammer at between 45 to 80 psi. In NSW you can run a boiler without cert if you are running it on private property without the public being anywhere near, as you are taking full responsibilty for it. If it goes boom and you kill yourself or your family that is your lookout. I imagine that in the land of pineapples bananas and XXXX the laws would be even more lax, geees you guys don't even need to get a roadworthyness check every year on your car to be able to register it, (we do).

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yeesir i can calculate volumes and weights, and i will be working this out in ,id say, the next week or so (still have to organise to pick it up.). i'll look into the steam boiler laws and regulations, and i know a bloke that does steam certification, he works as one of the boiler operators at the mill i work at during the crushing season.
over christmas at my olds in brisbane, i found an advert in an E.S.C.A catalogue from 1911 (belonging to my dad), featuring this hammer (or one very like it), the sizes it came in, and hp ratings, and also the pilkington self contained, and its sizes and specs too. ill get him to do a scan for me, as there might be some people interested in it.
have you had a chance to get the details of the self contained conversion you mentioned? (is that what you meant?)

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G'day woody,
that old cattle-dog does sound interesting, i'm a sucker for dirty old pics.
Here be a picture in our gallery to prove big hammers have been run on air-
http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/32165-lindsay-andrew-playing-with-chullora-steam-hammer/
Unfortunately I couldn't find out the size of the compressor, very big but not massive, if u know what I mean. Just outside the building from the 'shop were two air receivers about 4' dia by 8' long, apparently that is the secret; big volume is at least as important as pressure.
enjoy,
A.
PS, RIP Grant, he was a delight to read, and set the best example- share your knowledge, nay expertise, and the world is a better place.

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hmm, thanks andrew, im looking into it now..... i have one 8'x3' (approx) tank waiting for me, it is a little rusty inside, and i was going to cut it up to make a charcoal burner because i didnt want any fine rust getting into any air tools, but i might have another look at its usability..... that is a big massey to be run on a "not massive" compressor.......
and phil, yeah im lookin at the laws, probably just need some sore of laminated card, like my qld licence..... just cut it out of a cereal packet and away you go!!!

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