48willys Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 At least it was only my spare vise. Anyway I picked up a 6'' vise a while back and started cleaning it up and getting it fixed up for a spare. Well I found while cleaning on it that it had been through a fire just because of the scale all over it and some of the layers that are starting to come apart. Well I thought it would be fine for a backup so I kept going at it. I found that the jaws were not coming together right, so looking at I could tell the arm had a slight bow in it. Here’s how I broke it, well I thought I would just try to tweak it back cold since it seemed soft enough and it didn't really need much. I hit it twice with an 8lb hammer and I snapped it in half . The screw box hasn't a lot of life left in it, but my biggest concern is, is it even safe to use? I can fix the arm but if it’s that fragile I might get a hot piece of metal in it and it might let go from the leg side. Is it worth saving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 My vice had a weld in at least two places and hasn't let me down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 ...... but my biggest concern is, is it even safe to use? I can fix the arm but if it’s that fragile I might get a hot piece of metal in it and it might let go from the leg side. Is it worth saving? A six inch vise tends to be rare around here and pretty expensive when you find one so it is worth saving if you have the time to put the labor into it. Not being there, wherever you are, you or someone else will need to determine the integrity of the body of the vise to determine if it is safe to use. I would suggest replacing the handle and the spring, and maybe the mounting bracket if the bracket is iffy. If you don't have the time or interest to repair it, maybe you could trade it to someone in exchange for a smaller working vise. My opinion, mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Perhaps it needs to be tempered? Sometimes "fire items" get quenched by the firehoses leaving them in a bad state. Can you tell if it was real wrought iron or one of the malleable cast irons (does long exposure to high heats undo the malleability of such alloys???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I second Mr Power. What is it made of? If its wrought Iron I don't think any tempering would matter as I don't think it would get hard. If its one of the later forge steel vices it could have been hardened by mistake. I think the later Colombians were forged steel. How about posting a picture, I think some one here will be able to give a good guess of what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden H Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I have a vice that was in a fire, the jaws didn't line up straight. Until it had a rosebud set to it, then a peice of flat strap inbetween the jaws so they're parallel. Spark test the metal. Long splintery sparks generally mean carbon steel, wroughts not alot of sparks. It varies, but either way its a vice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48willys Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 As best I can tell, I think its wrought iron. I can see a grain to the metal on the outside and it looks like the jaws might have been forge welded to the body. The odd thing is the break, it looks like a very tight cristal structure. I'm going to try saveing it, Ill have to stick weld it back together though,I still cant forge weld very well at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Note too that wrought iron can have an appreciable carbon content, especially if it was bundled scrap forged out into WI---the old books often give a spec for things that include "not more than XYZ% steel" in the busheled stock! We tend to think of WI as being extremely low carbon but in reality it ranged quite a bit---hence the instructions in 18th and 19th century forging manuals to test every piece in a new shipment and sort as to grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Mr Powers that's a good point. I tend to forget that there is some stuff that is pretty carbon rich. Just yesterday I was grinding a small spot of wrought and it showed many branching sparks. I pretty rarely find wrought that has carbon, but once every few months I come across a piece that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Scrap is *fun* that way! I've actually run into a leaf spring that couldn't be hardened by quenching! It was a low carbon strain hardened one. Now that's just 1 in the last 30+ years of smithing but you really NEVER KNOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 My two cents' worth says go for it. At the moment, you don't have a vice. If you either can't fix it, or you fix it and it breaks, you'll only be where you are now,. Do your best welds and make a mental note to ease up on it, until you know what kind of strain it can take. Stay safe, at any rate. This thread reminds me of an article I read about a blacksmith working in Kazakhstan. The guy had made a leg vice by stick welding 3" rebar together. There was a hole for the screw part, but otherwise all home made. Keep us posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I might consider trying a torch and some brazing rod. See if it tins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 "At least it was only my spare vise" First line, First post. I think he has another vise... So he can play with this one and experiment! I have a PV I recently bought with a greenstick fracture in the leg. Definitely wrought iron so I am going to finish the break clean it up and try a 2 helpers, 1 smith forge weld sometime this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I had a vise that was missing the leg, only had a stump about 4 inch long. I split the stump open like a V. Forged a new leg with a chisel point to fit said V. heated both parts in a coal forge and with a helper bracing the vice end I held on to the foot and hammered it into the V welding it right in the fire. Then I removed it from the forge and cleaned up the weld on the anvil with a striker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I was just going to lap weld it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Smith Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 "At least it was only my spare vise" First line, First post. I think he has another vise... Thomas, I realise he has another vice. I am, after all reading the same posts you are. I'm using the phrase "a vice" to refer to the vice that was broken. Let's keep it civil in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLMartin Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I was just going to lap weld it. I'm sure that will be just fine as well. The in the fire weld was mostly for fun, as it was a weld I had never tried before. My Teacher at the time suggested it to me. It turned out well, but it was really kinda pointless in the end any way because the screw on the vice is half way shot to begin with. On that same note I have been hoping to make some butt welds with rod to plate soon. I see it discussed often in industrial books. I will attempt to butt weld some 1in sq bar in the middle of 3in by 3in by 1in plate. Will be attempting to replicate some older hardy tools Ive seen. Should be fun and challenging Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48willys Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 I worked on it a little over the weekend and got it welded back together. I cheated though, did it with the stick welder.It looks like it came out well and the jaws are lined up now. I guess it's just a matter of testing it and see how it holds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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