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"venturi" burners


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No, sorry, I do see those pictures. I was looking for a different angle. I'm wondering about the shape of the mixing tube. Straight, or flared? It looks straight, but I can't be sure.
No, it's got a short angle in and a long angle away from the venturi. Here's some pictures of one running in a forge I banged together in five minutes with some fire brick. Not the most efficient way to build a forge. Note that even with it closed up pretty tight there is a minimum of dragon breath. A true venturi should have no trouble pulling in enough air.

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Venturi action is probably one of those "simpler is more complex" deals. I have fire welded in a rather large propane forge fed by only ONE of Art Anderson's (of LOLO Mont.)venturi burners. One of the better venturi farriers' forges is made in the Portland Or. area. The builder,sort of an arrogant fellow,makes a BIG deal about his specially designed venturis. When I was in Canada a while back I saw his "specially engineered"(and darned expensive at his place)venturis on Canadian weed burner torches!!!!!!!Nice traditional tapered burner similar to ones on commercial stoves and furnaces!
The Anderson powered forge that I have welded with is built like Grant shows his: The venturi comes up through the bottom of a fire brick lined table. The top is a half round piece of about10" of pipe lined with KO Wool. Actually the burner is at a slight angle. Flame swirls around and the gets REALLY hot. I'd be glad to post pictures of Art's simple burner if anybody is interested.

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Ah, now I can see it. I think you said the SS flare at the end doesn't come standard; is that right? If so, what's at the end of the tube?
There is a short 1-1/4" nipple and then the cast iron burner shown. It has a ring of small holes like torch tip with a 1" hole in the middle.
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Grant, I see that this burner is up on Blacksmith Depot now. In fact I clicked through from there. There's one thing they don't explain, though: does it use MIG tips, or is there a fixed orifice? (And if it uses MIG tips, does it come with one already installed?)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Reefer: What sort of tool holder did you make for that nice little "air over hydraulic" press? thanks, Eric S.


Eric,

I just welded a couple of pieces 3/8" square steel tubing'guides to the bottom anvil support and the fabricated a sliding tool rest using 1/4" square tubing. The 1/4" slides through the 3/8" 'guides' easily but snugly. Since it is attach to the sliding part of the press it is alway at a usable position.
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For the steam car boilers, which use rather large venturi type burners consuming, when at max output, up to 6 gallons per hour of fuel, they use straight pipe mixing tubes. However since there is a grate that the air and fuel mixture must pass through(thousands of small drilled holes in a giant plate) and the burner must also push the combustion gases through the boiler tubes the burner must be able to generate a good bit of energy in the air and fuel mix.

Their solution is to run the fuel pressure rather high, for the "hot rodded" cars this can be up to 150 psi. I should mention that the steam car burners are bunsen types which hold the fuel in an air over fuel pressure tank. The fuel going from there through a valve, to a tube that is placed over the fire. Said tube transfers heat from the fire to the liquid fuel(gasoline, diesel or kerosine) and said fuel is then vaporized and on its way to a orifice and into the "venturi".

Many steam car guys have added "trumpet flares" to the input end of their venturis(aka, straight tube). This increase the ability of the venturi to draw in air and makes the burner capable of running at a higher output. For their steam powered race car known as "Whistling Billy", White used five nozzles in a + pattern, with the fifth nozzle in the middle and they also used one LARGE mixing tube instead of the multiple mixing tubes as used by most other steam car makers.

Here are some links that show what I am talking about.

http://www.steamgazette.com/chanburner/channels.htm

http://www.steamgazette.com/techpage/30hpboiler.htm

http://www.steamgazette.com/techpage/venturis.JPG

http://www.steamgazette.com/photoalbum/vennerbeck/parola-bunsen-boosters.jpg

http://www.steamgazette.com/burner1.jpg

http://www.stanleymotorcarriage.com/Parts/BurnerVaporizer.htm

http://www.stanleymotorcarriage.com/Parts/burner.htm

As to a paper being produced by students, here is a link to a paper produced in 1920 at MIT as a bachelor thesis on the shape of venturis as used in burners that I came across years ago in my steam car studies.

http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/36671

Caleb Ramsby

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  • 3 months later...

Venturi action is probably one of those "simpler is more complex" deals. I have fire welded in a rather large propane forge fed by only ONE of Art Anderson's (of LOLO Mont.)venturi burners. One of the better venturi farriers' forges is made in the Portland Or. area. The builder,sort of an arrogant fellow,makes a BIG deal about his specially designed venturis. When I was in Canada a while back I saw his "specially engineered"(and darned expensive at his place)venturis on Canadian weed burner torches!!!!!!!Nice traditional tapered burner similar to ones on commercial stoves and furnaces!
The Anderson powered forge that I have welded with is built like Grant shows his: The venturi comes up through the bottom of a fire brick lined table. The top is a half round piece of about10" of pipe lined with KO Wool. Actually the burner is at a slight angle. Flame swirls around and the gets REALLY hot. I'd be glad to post pictures of Art's simple burner if anybody is interested.


I'd be interested in seeing those pictures, Eric.
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  • 1 month later...

I got one of the venturi burners for Christmas this year and have as of today, been unable to figure out exactly how hook this thing up. This has frustrated me to no end because everyone I have talked to has had any idea what kind of regulator/adapter would be use and why someone would put a male flare on a receiving end of a gas system. Other than putting together a foot long set of brass adapters, I'm stumped. Is there some kind of hose that has a female 1/4" flare in the end that I'm just overlooking, and have been overlooking for 4 months?

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I forgot to welcome you answering your question in the other thread Johnathan. Welcome aboard, glad to have ya.

Please try to avoid postings like this, repeating a question in different threads is hard for blacksmiths to be nice about. We're a direct bunch and are likely to tell it like it is so if you annoy someone they're going to say so.

Frosty the Lucky.

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  • 7 months later...

I had a wild thought, when I was in school senior projects were hard to come by. Maybe we can see about getting some engineering students to do the math on several burner designs, then do practical testing and find out what designs perform best AND explain why, so better "home made" burners can be built.

Downside is it might need a budget.

Phil

 

Hello everyone.

 

I am new to blacksmithing and I am currently going to an engineering school here in TN. I have just started building my first plumbing parts burner and I am very interested as to the effectiveness of the different styles.  As senior projects have certainly not gotten any easier to find I think this would be a great one.  I go back to school in January and I will run the possibility of doing this as a project by my professors.  I would like to note price, ease of manufacture, BTU output, fuel consumption per BTU, and flame characteristics both inside and outside the forge for each burner. I would also like to compare the results to some of the commercially produced burners.

 

If my proffesors go for it, I will post the results on here.  If there is anything else that should be tested let me know.

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