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Side shelf, upsetting block orientation


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My Smithy Special 4 has arrived, and I am slowly getting my act together enough to put it in my backyard mini-smithy.
I have always had the horn to my left, but this anvil has an upsetting block and side shelf, which would put the conical horn on my right if they were to be oriented so as to be in the front, near me. Should they be in front where i can easily get at the handy upsetting block? I saw a suggestion somewhere on the web that the side-shelf should be facing away from the smith however. Any thoughts appreciated.
Robert
P. S. What are the uses of the side shelf?

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I understand that it is a lower surface for upsetting (hence the name) I also understand that turning a hoop is relatively easy between the upsetting block and the anvil body. I am sure there are more uses. I would like a new anvil with an upsetting block.

Phil

and I answer the wrong question. I am curious for other uses for an upsetting block and side shelf on an anvil too. Maybe I can get a new anvil eventually.

Phil

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Hofi has a good demonstration of using those anvil features. I placed the words "Youtube Hofi anvil" into Google search engine and came up with several videos beginning with::
---



I feel that these videos will answer a lot of your questions on anvil features and their uses.

Here is another, which shows Hofi upsetting:
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Because if Hofi says it, it it is the only way to do it. Try the anvil out use it you will find what works best for you. After a wile the metal shows you the best way. There is no one "world's greatest smith" and if there were you probably never heard of him because he is too busy turning out paying work to put things up on You Tube.

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There is no one "world's greatest smith" and if there were you probably never heard of him because he is too busy turning out paying work to put things up on You Tube.

Angeleforge was the one who posted the information on youtube. Angele is both the world wide distributor of Hofi products and is interested in providing education to the blacksmithing community on how to use the products. He did not hire an actor to demonstrate the product, but instead had Hofi (the creator of the product) demonstrate how it can be used, and the advantages of the design.

I agree that there is no one individual that is the "world's greatest smith". Even the most talented blacksmith will tell you there are still things he can learn. It is fortunate that Hofi has chosen IForgeIron to share his knowledge - at no cost - free of charge, to anyone interested in learning. You can view this FREE knowledge by clicking here.

It is not just Hofi, but many other blacksmiths have has chosen IForgeIron to share their knowledge - at no cost - free of charge, to anyone interested in learning. Click here
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And also here too. http://www.iforgeiro...mbo-vise-stand/ Thought I admit I could post more.

I guess what bothers me is how most of these ideas are not new. These are ideas that have been around for a long time even the Hofi style hammer. People, especially on the internet hold up this man as the end all and be all of blacksmithing. I have heard on this board and at meets that he invented this or that or that he revived blacksmithing from obscurity. It makes me upset because there are many superb smiths out there who get no love, who have worked very hard some of whom are actually better than Hofi. I will say he has refined some forging techniques, but who is to say some one did not do it 300 years ago but noone bothered to write it down. He claims these ideas as his own and puts his name on it. A lot of this stuff is just common sense and anyone who is working at the forge regularly, who is a thoughtful person will figure it out on his or her own. I have had people come to my shop and tell me that I was killing my self because I was not using one of his hammers. So far my arm is working fine even though I use a normal cross peen. They said that my tooling was obsolete and my methods were wrong, these were people who were students of his. I use fairly orthodox American and English style tooling that by some is considered improper yet I have kept a forge open and kept people employed for 10 years and counting. We all have room for improvement my self included. Blacksmithing is at least 3000 years old, it is bigger than any person, group of people, or nation. It is a universal craft. There are many ways to forge metal some efficient some not so. Some of the best smiths have done whole lot with very basic tools and others have everything and can't get past the basics. That being said I Hofi is a very skilled smith I just think some take it too far.

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I am a professional classical musician. I totally understand your sentiments. But I do admire those who are able to market themselves well, and I also feel that we all deserve anything we can get. I might have another musician's talent or work ethic, but not be able to be a soloist because of family situation, funding, etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Many complex factors. I do not begrudge the soloists. They also pay a price for what they have to do.
Maybe irrelevant but,
Best wishes, Robert
Bravo for what you do, and providing work in these times

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I really wish we could keep individuals out of these threads.

Some times fame is just a case of being in a particular place at a particular time or having a particular schtick. We are fortunate to be practicing the art at a time when there are lots of developments and smithing is actually happening. Remember Sandy Bealer's book was published in the seventies and was designed as a requiem for the forgotten art of blacksmithing. We have come a long way since then and it is thanks to a whole lot of charismatic smiths and a lot more drudges like myself.

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Steve Fontanini (www.fontaninianvilandtool.com) has designed an anvil based on the Continental style. He opted to place the upsetting block on the near side of the anvil, having the rounded horn to the left. Most traditional German anvils had the upsetting block on the far side. A smith can jump a bar on the upsetting block or hand hammer it for upsetting. It all depends on the length of the bar. Some jumping is done on a plate or swage block at floor level.

With my Fontanini "Rathole" anvil, I looked at the side shelf and it was about 5/16" thick at the end. I ground and sanded the lower portion to sharpen the shelf so that I could use it to draw and shape bifurcated ends like barbeque fork tines and split scrolls.

The horn shape is different on Steve's anvil. He Americanized the horn by giving it a little more mass and "belly" than the traditional Continental anvil.The latter have a horn that is like a cone that has the base cut at an angle, in other words, fairly straight sided. I don't percieve one horn as being all that much better than the other. Just commenting.

Steve has his anvils cast in Arizona, and he hand finishes them at his Wyoming shop.

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I guess some of what I posted earlier comes off as Jealousy but Its more the fact that I just don't see what all the fuss is about. I have read every book on forge work I can get my hands on, I have a BFA in metalsmithing. I have taken a slough of classes by noted smiths. I also have talked to many other highly skilled smiths at length. I also have almost 20 years at the forge 15 of it full time. I have made thousands of scrolls and nails. I also read a whole bunch of stuff on the web. My resume if I chose to write one would be several pages long. What I see is a person who gathered together a lot of good methods of working then turned around and said they were his ideas and a whole chorus of less informed people turned around and believed him. I have yet to meet a professional smith that works the way Hofi works. I don't really seek public recognition from the blacksmithing community I am quite happy to be validated by selling gate or a railing to a customer, then being paid to build my idea. All I seek is to live a middle class lifestyle and work as a blacksmith. I come here and post because I LOVE forging with a passion and I love discussing and debating ideas and concepts. I would like to leave a legacy of good work behind as well but I will leave that up to others to determine.

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There used to be a blueprint floating around somewhere about Hofi woop tongs. These really wrap around the piece in a secure way. He mentions in the blueprint about how it is necessary to use some special feature of the Hofi anvil to do the special acute bend at the end of the tong jaw. Without the blueprint and pictures, it is kind of hard to figure out, but I think that he means that the tapered end of the side shelf can be used to produce this bend. I tried making a pair of these tongs with a normal London pattern anvil. Indeed, it was tough to deal with that bend, so I followed the advice and made a hardy stake tool to do it. Since the anvil had a non-standard sized hardy hole, I ended up leaving the tool with the anvil. Sure would have been nice to have that shelf.

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Because if Hofi says it, it it is the only way to do it. Try the anvil out use it you will find what works best for you. After a wile the metal shows you the best way. There is no one "world's greatest smith" and if there were you probably never heard of him because he is too busy turning out paying work to put things up on You Tube.


I remember reading a biography of Horatio Nelson a while back. It opened with the traditions that sprung up in the Royal Navy after his victory and death at Trafalgar, and how those traditions of copying Nelson's tactics became so firmly entrenched into their standard operating procedure. At the end of the biography, the author revisited these blind adherences to Nelson's memory, and pointed out the irony that Nelson was so successful because he refused to follow tradition. (Luckily for the RN, they had two more iconoclasts in Jackie Fisher and John Jellicoe, but that's another couple wars, and another couple books.)

I'm pretty new to this smithing thing. I've only been doing it for about two years now. I don't know Hofi from Herodotus. But I do know that he makes thoughtful statements about why you do something, not just what you are supposed to do. Seems to me that if you want to respect his opinion on something, the best way to do it is to think, experiment, and understand. Not just do it because he says so.
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Admiral Nelson gave great orders because he knew how to follow them.


While I respect your opinion on all things smith-related, I think the facts contradict this statement quite clearly. Were he really good at following orders, he would not have put his telescope up to his blind eye at Copenhagen. He also would not have won the advantage for Great Britain.

The culture of instruction you talk about, "do it this way, because I said so, and because this is how it's always been done" is not the same as the way Hofi presents his instruction: "you should do it this way, because I have thought about it, and it doesn't matter a bit how it has always been done." I have my own opinions about instructional theory, but I'm not presenting them here. I'm just pointing out the irony of following someone blindly who claims to have found the best way by not following blindly.
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I think you are conflating correlation and causation. However, that's not my point.

In a system that says you must follow blindly until some threshold is met, it's clear how the learning process is structured: you do what I say, because I say it. Tradition tells us so. It has been this way, therefore it will be this way.

That's not the case here with Hofi: he says, in effect, I believe this is the best way to do it, because I have thought about it, without regard to tradition or history. I have a logical argument why this is the best way.

In the first case, it makes sense to follow instruction blindly until the point of meeting the threshold: becoming a Master. In the second, it makes sense to question the teacher, seeking to understand more fully. Therefore, I find it ironic when the reaction to someone who supports the second case is to follow blindly.

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