LordWard Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Hey Guys just joined I Forge and already have some questions. I have been very, VERY interested in forging swords for a long time. I have recently just purchased first anvil (11" railroad track) , Forge hammer, pliers, forge(grill with shop vac rigged), 25lbs coal, gloves, eye protection and "The Complete Bladsmith: Forging Your Way To Perfection" Just missing one thing... The steel blank... =/ What steel is best to buy and where can I buy it? I found Tool Steel O1 (Oil Hardening) Flat Stock, Ground, 3/16" Thick, 1-1/4" Width, 18" Length on Amazon.com Is this acceptable steel to use? What is a good size blank to purchase for swordsmithing? What should the thickness and width be? Very excited to hear back from some people who have some more knowledge on the subject!Sorry so long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Start by reading these threads:http://www.iforgeiro...__fromsearch__1http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/23026-what-kind-of-scrap-is-strongest/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernforge Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 For fun you could try starting with a four foot length of A2http://www.diehlsteel.com/a2.aspx Don't forget to post pictures. Mod note: This is humor, A2 is not recommended for large blades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 OK, just to be clear, anvilflower is pulling your leg. Don't buy a four foot length of A2! Or any A2 for that matter, as a beginner. Although it might be somewhat amusing for others to watch, you would not find it amusing to forge -- especially given the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRunals Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Hey, I'm glad you have lots of ambition! The 10xx series of steels are very good for the bladesmith beginning and expert alike, W1 is also very good. I used O1 for a good long while but it can be a little tricky to normalize or anneal because it actually air hardens a bit. Both admaril, and aldo are good places to buy steel from. I suggest starting with either admaril's 1075/1080 or aldo's 1084. Your final thickness should be around 1/8" to 3/16" on most knives and swords (some designs may be thinner or thicker) so order steel according to that. I would suggest you make a few knives before you start to make a sword, but do whatever you feel you should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I suggest that students make their weight in knives before they get to swords. Far faster to make your learning mistakes on something you can replace in a Weekend's work than to make them on something that took months of your time. Also you want to learn on fairly cheap stock as you *WILL* be throwing quite a bit of it on the scrap heap. So I advise you to start with 5160 sourced through automotive spring shops---preferably new as then you know what alloy you are getting and that it should have no fatigue issues in it. Note that The Complete Bladesmith is my favorite book for new bladesmiths; however I strongly advise you to learn basic blacksmithing *first*, just like a medical student doesn't start out doing surgery; but has to learn anatomy, physiology, etc *before* they do an operation. Bladesmithing is sort of the advanced grad student level of blacksmithing. I like "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" and "The Backyard Blacksmith" both of which you should be able to ILL at your local public library. Finding a local bladesmith to help you out speeds up the learning process *immensely*! Have you attended any meetings of the Arizona Artist Blacksmith Association? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Read the intro on knives, and get good insurance. http://www.iforgeiro...ew-knife-maker/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I realize we may seem like a bunch of killjoys. It's not that we don't want you to have fun. We just don't want this, or worse, to happen to you:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s0dRcdyizU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlissStreet Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 25lbs for a first sword? wow. I bought 200 lbs for a pair of tongs.... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I realize we may seem like a bunch of killjoys. It's not that we don't want you to have fun. We just don't want this, or worse, to happen to you: Strange as it seems, that does happen a lot when the blade is not made properly, and the $50 price cannot even cover a proper heat treat. This is why we try to get people to learn basics first, but many self appointed experts (usually young people that never made one) think we are trying to stop them from learning. That is not true, we are trying to help you to learn in a safe way. for the maker as well as end user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWard Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Yeah I was talking to some people last night in the chat after I had posted and I have been "persuaded" to start working on knives first as some of you have suggested. . I was looking through the forums and Rail Road Spikes seem to be a good start? Also I have talked to a Blacksmith in my area today I found from Abana and he pointed me in the right direction of where to get my products (coal, coke, steel). And @ MattBower That video is a life saver, I honestly didnt think something like that could happen... HONESTLY... But I will be asembling my forge in the next few days Ill post some pics. Also at BlissStreet How much coal do you think is needed for a few tries at rail road knives? Thank you guys for the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 The amount of coal you use will depend on fire management. - That is hard for someone to tell you - being your just starting out. The best thing for you to do is give it a try and you will be the first to know. Find someone that you can visit at their shop and show you some pointers or find someone that will come to your place and give you some help ( the later will be best I think, so you can use your own forge and tools and get advise for what you have to work with). Very few can jump into blacksmithing and just hit the road running and make a bunch of stuff the way they expect first off. You will be best to just give it a try and go from there. Help is here, if you give things a good go and have trouble. May the black boogers infest your nose LOL. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Coal is easy to get in 50# or 100# bags. Get one bag, or a couple 5 gallon buckets of loose. That will be enough for several hours of play time, much will be spent learning fire control. You will need fire tools. Good first projects. You need a poker, rake and shovel. The poker is just a rod with a hook tip, and the rake has a flat end a few inches long bent at a right angle to the handle. Make the grip areas fancy. You will eventually want to replace them simply because they reflect a lower level of skill. Keep them as a benchmark of where you started. If you can just form a simple shovel from sheet metal if you don't have or can't get a cheap one. it can have a sheet metal handle, or have a bar handle riveted on. Making a scoop from bar is not a beginner project, but more intermediate when you are ready to hot work sheet metal. Now you are ready to make some knick knacks. leaf key fobs, S hooks, S hooks with scrolls. Make a dozen or so of each. This is to learn hammer control and how metal moves. Making some tools like punches or chisels may be good. Use leaf or coil spring, and heat treat appropriately. A simple smith's knife is made like a leaf, but longer, and the handle is like an S hook with a scroll. If you use the same spring you made the punches and chisels from you have already had a good practice run on your first knife's heat treat. Most of all have fun! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I forgot to mention a dipping can. Get a soup can, and make a flatened end on your bar long enough to go 2/3 or more around the can, then form it to a size slightly smaller than the can (but not too much) then pop the can in after the bar is cool. Put a fancy handle on this too just for fun and practice. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I suggest getting an automotive coil spring and cutting it down 2 sides giving you a dozen pieces of identical steel to work with. This means you can get practiced with one knife steel and experiment with heat treating and testing examples to failure. RR spikes, even the HC ones, are not in the same range of carbon content as knife steels. Yes ton's of people make them but it's more of a "one trick pony" thing. However working on blades before you have control of your hammer or your forge fire tends to result in a lot of frustration and extra work---one bad hammer ding can ruin or require an hour of extra filing to recover from and most beginners will make a lot of them. NB: make sure your hammers are well dressed as most come from the store *NOT* suitable for smithing as the edges are too sharp and will cause more/deeper dings than a properly dressed hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWard Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 @ Phil Krankowski and jeremy kThanks on the measurements and ideas, Ill pick up a 100# bag tonight! Also @ Phil Krankowski Thanks for the advice on what to make. Ima do some reading on the items! @ThomasPowers Im taking a little visit to some junk yards this week end mainly looking for some col/leaf springs to start fooling around with. (also my Drum for my forge) You guys are awesome! Thanks so many questions answered and even more answers then I thought I was ganna get! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 I live in the area, if you are interested and will wait til the weather cools a bit You may want to stop by the shop for a few hours and I will demo some basics. i dont teach kids to make sharp pointy things so will need to know your age also. E me if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWard Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hey guys, jsut bought everything for forge. (brake drum forge) had a quick questions, all the other ones I seen have longer pipes then mine. I got black Iron Tee joint connected to (top where Brakedrum sits on Flang) 2" nipple (side where blow dryer goes) 4" nipple (bottom where ash falls connected to cap) 2" Are these lenghts okay? Also is $7.00 + S&H $14.95 so 22 bucks a good deal for '1/2 CUBIC FOOT 12X12X5 1/2 OF METALURGICAL GRADE COKE' off eBay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 A cap for the ash dump is not a good idea. You will fight with it and possibly burn yourself. Can you get a 4 or 6 inch pipe for the ash dump end too? Your ash dump can easily made with a coupling nut(long nut), a hose clamp, a piece of sheet metal, and a bolt. You clamp the coupling nut to the end of the pipe and fasten the sheet metal to swing over the end to close or open. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Years ago a knife-maker came to the local guild to demonstrate and brought along his home-made grinders. By coincidence there was a gentleman selling hammers also there. After the knife-maker gave permission to use his sander-grinders, lines formed, first at the table to purchase hammers, and then at the sanders where smiths refinished the hammer heads. As mentioned above, most new hammers come with sharp edges that need to be removed as those hammers straight from the manufacturers will likely leave dings. If at all possible take a course or two or at least visit a local knife-forger and see first hand how hammers that are properly finished can save you a *lot* of time and frustration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 IIRC met grade coke is oil coke. It is good forge fuel for large forges that have good electric blowers. It is hard to light, and requires constant blast to stay lit, so it is not well suited to a small forge. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Hall Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The book you baught is very excellent reading, he has a great section on steels in it. I've wore the binding out on my copy. If you do start with railroad spike knives check out Robb Gunters Super Quench. Leaf springs are a whole lot better in my opinion, but I do think you should do the spike knives too, they will teach you a few things I bet, I know they did me, my first one was awfull, my second embarassing and I buried my third before someone caught me with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Hall Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 By the way Mr. Sells stickies on heat treating are great, read them a lot........ I mean a lot read them like you are going to be tested on them.......... cause you can do everything perfect and mess that up and all you have is some flat stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWard Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 @ Phil, yeah all the other home made brake drum forges look like they have a 4-6" ash dump as well... I guess I was just trying to save a little coin buying the 2". I swing by ACE Hardware some time today and grab a 6" one. @ David, I purchased a "Black Smithing Hammer" from ACE Hardware. I do not have it near me Im not at my house but It did have "rings"(rings started on the very edge and got smaller and smaller into the middle) on the hammer part. and it was NOT perfectly flat. slightly rounded... I was guessing that it was supposed to be like that as it said "blacksmithing Hammer" on it lol @Nathan Hall, yeah I got my book from Amazon, its still being shipped Im stoked to read it. But I have to juggle it between my 7 books I have assigned to me from college... ASU =/ But Ill find the time! Just waiting on 1. RR Spikes being shipped 2. coke being shipped 3. Book getting shipped. Then Ill be following your lead Nathan no doubt in utterly destroying some RR spikes in my backyard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Yep. Rings. It is really a spiral because the hammer was dressed with a lathe. File or sand them off and shape to a smooth watch glass shape, which is similar to the shape it has, but much smoother. Those rings will transfer to your work and the transition edge is sharper than you want right now. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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