What type of steel to use in hand planes blades?

[brynnb]

So I'm looking at getting some woodworking tools, and a hand plane is obviously an important piece. There's seemingly a lot of pseudo-science surrounding these but perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to discount it before I try it.

Anyway, people often say that it helps to buy a third party blade if you're buying a less than top of the line hand plane. It seems strange that the types of steel used would really differ that much.

But on to my question: What's the ideal type of steel for making these blades?

[MattBower]

How much heat treating experience do you have, and what sort of heat treating equipment do you have?

[bigfootnampa]

Magic is NOT what makes them work. I have bought planes from major manufacturers that had blades so soft they were useless. I have successfully fixed them by re-heat treating them on the job site with torch and water (NOT ideal). IMO most production planes have blades that are much too THIN to work optimally. This is the main benefit of buying and fitting an aftermarket blade IMO (that you get a thicker blade... usually). For plane blades that I make I usually use leaf spring steel (usually 5160). I would expect 1045, 4140, 4150, 1050,1090 and other similar steels to work well. The main thing is to have a nice thick blade that will have some momentum and resist chattering and to get a good heat treat and a VERY sharp edge. Remember that in use the blade will take some impact forces so too brittle blades will chip at the edge... temper should be closer to axe blades than razors. Be careful fitting a thicker blade though as throat clearance may be an issue. Throats can generally be closer than most production models but are often not simple to alter. Pay attention to the chipbreaker and clamping system too as they may be issues (of course you'd face these same issues with a purchased blade anyway).

[ThomasPowers]

Why are you surprised that manufacturers tend to use the cheapest blades they can get away with rather than the best?

When you buy a car do you expect it to come with top of the line tires? If you need high speed tires or heavy duty commercial ones you expect to put them on the car yourself after buying it.

Most people buying stuff don't need the *best* of something a mediocre "good enough" will work for them and save the manufacturer a *lot* of money. As a gedanken experiment think of bidding a smithing job to use only the best materials at 4 to 10 times the cost of regular materials, what percentage of bids will you win?

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

If you are sending it out for heat treat; O-1, A-2, or D-2 should be good, and they are readily available in ground flats. O-1 probably being the least expensive of the 3. I have made die sets using D-2, and corker jaws with A-2. Both wear really good ,with D-2 being the better of the two.

[MattBower]

I've been trying to post a follow-up all day. I'm glad the gods of the bytes seem to be appeased for now.

I agree with BGD in that there are many good possibilities if you have the capacity to heat treat them to their full potential. Most of us don't. A2 and D2 are both used in high end commercial plane irons. So are some high speed steels. Some of the high carbon martensitic stainless steels like S30V also have great potential. All of these have enough carbon to reach maximum hardness, with extra carbon and alloying elements left over for wear resistant carbides, and all are at least moderately tough (with the HSS being probably the least so). But none of them are easy to forge, and none of them are really suited to simple blacksmith heat treating methods. That's why I asked about your setup. "Ideal" in a perfect world and "ideal" with what you have could be very different.

[Tom Allyn]

As a blacksmith you don't need 'the best' planer knives. You're able to sharpen and maintain knives better than the average plane user. So unless you're planning on very heavy use I wouldn't sweat having 'the best' knives.

What are you planning to plane?

[MattBower]

I dunno. Some of the hardcore woodworking guys -- the kind I'd expect to go for high end after-market plan irons and the like -- are pretty obsessive about sharpening, and spend a lot of money on equipment.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I think Carpenter Tool Steel nailed it. They always recommended starting with W-1 and move to an alloys ONLY for certain characteristics like hot hardness, toughness, quench stability, etc. Nothing takes an edge like a 1% carbon steel (say 1095 or W-1) properly heat treated. Keep your iron oiled and dry and you won't need stainless. Don't get it red hot in use and you won't need high-speed. High speed is not a good choice for edges sharpened less than 45º.

[MattBower]

I think the certain characteristic they're going for is extreme wear resistance from the alloy carbides. I agree the HSS seems like kind of a surprising choice, although it's certainly very wear resistant. Apparently some folks like HSS for hogging really hard tropical woods, some of which contain a lot of silica.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

High speed is not something for the uninitiated to try forging or heat treating. Wouldn't it be better to talk about something he might actually be able to use?

[jimmy seale]

i sure don't know about planers, but i have made a draw knife out of 52100 and it works well. on the tempering i went light, so you have to make sure there isn't any nails and such that could hurt the blade

[MattBower]

High speed is not something for the uninitiated to try forging or heat treating. Wouldn't it be better to talk about something he might actually be able to use?

Yes, This is why I asked what kind of HT setup he has, and wrote, "'Ideal' in a perfect world and 'ideal' with what you have could be very different." I also said (about A2, D2, HSS, etc.), "But none of them are easy to forge, and none of them are really suited to simple blacksmith heat treating methods." I was trying to get him to realize that making one from the "ideal" steel isn't necessarily as simple as it sounds.

If it were me, with what I have, I would use 1084, or maybe stretch and try 1095, O1 or W1. Those are all steels with enough C to make a very good cutting tool, and ones I think I could probably do a decent HT on with just charcoal and a muffle in a hand-cranked coal forge. (I know I can handle 1084. The others would be a little trickier.) But I'd do it knowing I was making a compromise. Just trying to get him to realize that he might have to compromise as well. I may have gotten a bit off on a tangent, though, which I sometimes do.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Yep, I think 1084/1095/W-1 will make a plane blade superior to anything else you can make in the shop. And probably superior to 90% of what you can buy.

[archiphile]

So, I build period furniture using ONLY hand tools as a hobby. I am fairly obsessive about sharpness and frequently touch up my edge tools on a 16,000 grit ceramic stone followed by a good stropping with polishing compound.

I say all of this as a lead in to when I purchase an edge tool the FIRST thing that happens is flattening the back of said tool. This starts on a 100 grit and moves through the grits to 16,000. By the time I am finished I can read the NY Times Stock quotes in the back. What really get me fuming is when I have to completely anneal and file flat a tool.(followed by HT)

My suggestion to you is to start not with a plane iron, as the large surface area can be a little daunting. I would suggest making a mortising chisel or a set of bench chisels. Theses are still fairly difficult, but require a smaller investment in steel and are a little more forgiving in terms of srruface area requiring flattening. I enjoy forging these as they are rather quick once you make your first ten pieces.

As far as type of steel. Keep it simple, W-1 or O-1. I find them easy to HT and fairly inexpensive too.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Why do you even have to forge a blade for a plane when ground flat stock is available? Cut to length, bevel, and heat treat.

[Timothy Miller]

I doubt if he has to ask what kind of steel to use he has the ideal set up. I agree with grant 1095 or W1 are ideal for this kind of thing. In the heyday of hand wood working this is very similar to the steel that was used. If I was going to make a plane blade I would take a short section of an old file grind off the teeth and forge weld it to a section of mild steel. I would then forge and file it to shape. Files are W1 or similar steel. No fancy equipment needed no tool steel to be purchased. Countless old tools were made this way. All that needs to happen is simple heat treat that if properly done will hold a razor edge. It may be unsophisticated or old fashioned but you can't argue it wont work. All you need is a forge, anvil and vise to do it plus the knowledge of course.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Many, many small old planes were made from an old file. I've made a few exactly as Tim described.

[MattBower]

"I doubt if he has to ask what kind of steel to use he has the ideal set up."

Usually that's true, but there's always that one guy whose wife or mother is a potter or enameler with her own kiln, something like that. So I try to remember to ask.