smith brother Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I need to PUDDLE a coating of brass onto some horse shoe nails, and wondered if a MAP GAS cylinder would produce a hot enough temp to melt the rod and flow a coating onto the sides of some nails? Thank You for hearing me out, Dale in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I would expect that might be enough. A soft firebrick under might help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 You are describing a brazing procedure. I do not think I could do that with Mapp gas...I could do it with an Oxy Acet set up. I could also do it in a gas or coal forge. For that I would use some puire copper and flux as I have not tried that with brass in a forge. To read about how that is done search for penny welds. But pennies wont work. You will still get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 For horseshoe nails, yeah, I suspect it'll work fine. Might take a bit. Grant's right that an insulating brick underneath would make it easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 You are describing a brazing procedure. I do not think I could do that with Mapp gas...I could do it with an Oxy Acet set up. I could also do it in a gas or coal forge. For that I would use some puire copper and flux as I have not tried that with brass in a forge. To read about how that is done search for penny welds. But pennies wont work. You will still get the idea. Mapp by itself may not be hot enough but in the form of a Oxy/Mapp torch, we cut steel plate up to 5" thick where I used to work :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecelticforge Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 If you wish to stick them together, then you are brazing yes. I am not totally sure of what you wish to do as I only just woke up but if you wish to coat the nails with the bronze, then you can heat the nails with the gas and quickly brush them with a bronze brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thank You ALL.............. I wish to complete an arty project where I have spelled out the name (MARY) in BOX form using 1-1/2" horse shoe nails. I want to PUDDLE brazing rod as a coating to give it a PATINA of brass, the outside only. I will give it a try using the soft fire brick method. Thanks for hearing me out, and the suggestions. Dale in Indy 'A CORN FIELD WITH A RACE TRACK IN THE MIDDLE' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 MAPP will do it. It will take more time than other presented options. Insulating the the work is important. Propane will do it too, but will take 3x as long as MAPP, unless you can put the whole project into a propane forge on a sheet of kiln shelf. I have melted brass brazing rod with propane plumber's torch before, even though that was not the intent at the time. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 ..... but if you wish to coat the nails with the bronze, then you can heat the nails with the gas and quickly brush them with a bronze brush. This will work really well and should be easier as you will not need to get the nails as hot. Besides, a brass brush from homedepot is less than 5$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 When you suggest a BRASS BRUSH, are you talking a brush that looks like a TOOTH brush, or the shape of a PAINT brush? Dale in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 A big tooth brush. It is a wire brush made from brass wires. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 If all you need is sort of a light golden patina, the brass brush should work well. It'll be a very thin coating. Try it out. If it's not the effect you want, you should be able to braze over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 What exactly do you mean by "blob" of brass? If you want a nice coating a brass brush works nicely at a black heat an you can do it with plain old bernzomatic propane. If you want a thicker coat a little flux and a decent torch will make it easy. The easiest brass to use is a piece of brazing rod from the welding supply, get the fluxed rod. A do it yourself brazing rod is as simple as buying a roll of brass picture hanging wire and wrapping it around the end of the nail. Sprinkle a bit of borax on it and heat till it flows. We'll be here if you need more tips, tricks or silly cracks. I'd be the silly crack guy, I'm wondering how many guys were waiting for me to say something about just using a Mapp gas TANK instead of a torch. I thought I'd give you and the gang a break. For now that is. Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Frosty, I said PUDDLE, doesn't matter if the coating isn't even. Thanks for all the TIPS. I have the stuff to do some testing, so will advise how it works. I haven't used this site, but can tell, I HAVE BEEN MISSING A REAL OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN.......... I do arty pieces, have too many projects going, but seem to thrive on such, so probably won't change. Hard to stop a 74 year old. Just having fun, FUN IS GOOD! Dale in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 Ok, I fired up my Mapp gas torch, and found that it does produce enough heat to turn a horse shoe nail into a BRIGHT CHERRY RED piece, but the brass brush didn't give me the PUDDLE coating I am looking for. Monday I will stop by the welding store and purchase some flux coated brazing rods and go from there. I will advise my results. Thanks, Dale in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 While you are out stop at the grocery and get some borax (20 mule) from the laundry aisle. That is usable as a flux as well for this task. For what I THINK you are after you need to get the steel to accept the brass wetting it as a film first, then you can build your puddle. A bit of sandpaper to clean the surface bright may help also. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 Thanks.................years ago I purchased several arty pieces made out of horse shoe nails, words were spelled out with the nails, and some nails were heated and bent to form a certain letter. All fastened together so as to make a good hanging. Example: PEACE, WELCOME, ETC. they were coated with brass, but not a smooth coating, but the outsides were uneven or what I call puddle coating. It provides a neat patina, and that's what I am seeking. This is a good site, I plan on visiting OFTEN. Dale in Indy I don't know how to post pictures, so maybe I can E-mail a picture or two and a kind member can post for me, I would need an address though, and I DON'T forward unwanted crap. At 73 plus, don't have the time or heart to do such, LOL. I have over the years made lots of arty things, steel, wood, materials, and love doing such. Some projects have taken years, but fun, FUN IS GOOD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 When you suggest a BRASS BRUSH, are you talking a brush that looks like a TOOTH brush, or the shape of a PAINT brush? Dale in Indy If, for some other project you want to try a brass brush for a soft finish, or just brass highlights.... Buy a barbeque grill cleaning brush. Be sure the bristles are pure brass by looking at the tips... If they are brass colored, the bristles will (should anyway) be pure brass. Brush vigorously at a low black heat. There are lots of brass coated steel brushes out there and they do not work as well (or at all). The tips of the bristles generally will easily be identified as steel (not yellow). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 We'll be here if you need more tips, tricks or silly cracks. I'd be the silly crack guy Frosty the Lucky Ask him about the blacksmith that pretended to be a lumberjack. I would be vewwy vewwy carfull about Frosty and his neat ideas ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 I would love to hear about the blacksmith that pretended to be a lumberjack. Dale in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Dale, you can read all about it here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 I'd be the silly crack guy, Frosty the Lucky So Frosty just what is silly about your crack? Best Regards Ian Dale' Frosty's sugestion about wrapping the brass wire around the nail heating it a bit then dippin it in borax before the final heat to melt the brass onto the nail should work really well! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 WOW, WOW, and WOW. What a story, FOR SURE. Page after page of well wishes, WHO SAID THIS COUNTRY DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OTHERS. Not true. We just had a radio guy get hurt falling a tree, so got to be oh so careful. oh so true. Frosty, YOUR THE MAN! God Bless, Dale in Indy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Frosty is da blacksmith that found a tree that kicked worse than a mule! If you have another soft fire brick use it as a back stop to reflect more heat onto the nail, it'll help a lot with the brazing. I use smaller gage brass wire and 20 Mule Team for brazing with my air/acetylene torch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smith brother Posted July 11, 2011 Author Share Posted July 11, 2011 I have a big torch and tanks, haven't used it in years, but gauges still show plenty of stuff left. What tip number should I use? While at it, what pressure for each bottle is a good starting point? I just thought my Mapp gas torch would be very convenient, so will try it first, then fire up the big boy. It's no dig beal.............. Two soft fire bricks it will be................ Thanks a million, Dale in Indy P.S. My father had a Mule, it LOVED Dad, and when people came to visit the Mule would get mad. He would walk away, then when you weren't looking, he would run by, and side kick you. My brother-in-law got kicked a good one, and told my Dad, if he comes close to me again, I will shoot him, and he meant it. Dad kept him in the barn when folks came to visit from then on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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