basher

200 alldays and onions hammer.

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Are you going to leave that section of roof out so the celestial shafts of light (courtesy of a God) potentially remove the chill prior to lift up!
Big effort and Happy days. Nice One

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I remember the wonderful feeling when I finally installed my 3cwt Allday's, it had been in the yard waiting for a building to house it for the best part of ten years!

Please excuse me if you already know about the stuff I mention below, once I started remembering things about the Alldays it all came in a rush!

One thing I notice from your picture is the lack of air gap between your inertia block and the floor. It may not be a problem for you but I found I had to cut a gap in the floor to prevent the vibrations being transmitted to the walls via the floor and they then acted like a sound board. Not good news for me or my neighbours.

I actually left a gap around the 3cwt's inertia block when I cast the floor, but thought I could just run the 50kg Reiter and my 1cwt Alldays directly on the floor slab because they were on 8 and 10 Ø150mm rubber buffers...wrong. I had to hire a diamond saw and cut down the sides and front and stitch drilled across the back in order to have them sitting on a floating platform to reduce the racket.

The other thing I did on the 3cwt to reduce the chuff noise and the oil mist in the atmosphere from the exhaust was build a plenum chamber on top of the master cylinder and pipe the tup exhaust and the air inlet into it. The same air then pretty well shoots backwards and forwards through the machine...an almost closed loop. I made a baffle system inside the chamber out of MDF in order to smooth the vent to atmosphere. I guess it is a bit like the one illustrated on the enormous image earlier in the thread, only more squat in shape. If you do not have near neighbours, David Petersen's 3cwt Pilkington (or early Alldays) had a pipe connecting both inlet and exhaust and that poked out through a hole in the wall.

I am afraid I came to the thread 6 months too late to offer the handbooks and installation info in time but If you need any info let me know...you have sourced oil and such I presume?

As far as the damage to the frame goes, if it is at all reassuring after 5 years use my top tool and wedge come loose one day and I discovered the front dovetail lug had cracked from the root of the dovetail to the front! I thought that it would be the end of the tup if not the hammer. I then discovered the crack was along the line of a welded repair so instant relief...if that weld lasted for 5 years then I could weld it again...that was 10 or 12 years ago. I veeed it out carefully and tig welded it with 312 rod, been fine ever since. The slave cylinder head cracked and I machined another out of mild steel. We reproduced the hollow dish form by rowing the capstan of the lathe with a piece of scaffold pipe and a heavy boring bar! That was the classic instant repair, it failed at 3pm I managed to persuade my local profile company to cut and deliver a 75mm thick disc that afternoon, we machined and drilled it the next morning and had the furnace up and forging again by 3 that afternoon! Happy days!

Incidentally noticing your slings around the tup when you were investigating it, I found that the eye bolt that fits the cylinder head thread also fits the thread in the top of the tup.

Lastly, the little cushion and primer valve at the top of the slave cylinder you rightly identified (as far as I know) can sometimes get sticky and not seal properly if you over oil the air ways. That can sometimes cause the tup to hit the cylinder head.

And finally lastly, I had to rewind the motor a few years ago because a well meaning assistant had dutifully given the motor bearings a couple of pumps of grease every time he did the plain bearings and slides on the other hammers, unfortunately it ran into the armature windings and burnt them out...

Hope something helps, Alan

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I would be interested in any info on the exhaust chamber .
I cad planned to vent from thw workshop through some flexible plastic pipe I have and then put an exhaust silencer box on the other end?
I thought the noise would drive me insane but I have gotten used to it. hard to concentrate though. I have a hole dug for a 300 as well which has been in the yard for 5 years . it was cheaper to buy and I thought install a 200 than the 300 so that is next on the list...
I have the concrete separated from my slab with1"polystyrene I am going to cap it with a 1 inch deep bead of silicone rubber.
so far the noise of the hammer is less than my 60lb goliath which rests on the slab.

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I will dig out some photos and / or do a sketch of it.

I actually did much the same modification to both the little Allday's and the Reiter, it was prompted after I heard how much quieter the later 'all encased' Kühn hammers were.

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After trawling through 6500 images in my iphoto library I found these which may give some clue.
post-9203-0-07898200-1330376864_thumb.jp
(Myloh67 in the background I was helping him on one of his commissions) You can see the pipe which went on to the hole in the side that had a mesh filter thingy originally, and the pipe from the plenum chamber back to the air inlet valve which I turned upside down. It just sits over the valve and was sealed with silicone sealer. The plenum chamber was an industrial extractor fan housing which I sealed at the base with a sheet of mdf and then mounted four mdf discs under neath the sheet that formed the lid. I spaced these a few mm apart with washers. Two of them fitted tight to the tube and had a ring of holes drilled through near their centre and they alternated with the other two which were 10mm smaller in diameter than the tube so the air travelled around the outside of them. The lid was also spaced off the flange with a couple of washers.
post-9203-0-16588200-1330377613_thumb.jp
Shows the pipes from the front.
post-9203-0-46188200-1330377685_thumb.jp
The Reiter plenum is just a 3mm plate box which has the inlet and exhaust valves routed to it.
post-9203-0-03511000-1330377796_thumb.jp
The little Alldays modification was to bolt and silicone a steel sheet to seal off the exhaust gap between the cylinders and drill a Ø30mm hole through the side and use a piece of marine toilet waste pipe (!) to connect back to the panel I fixed on the back of the crank chamber. Did I hear Heath- Robinson mentioned?

I will do a sketch of the plenum chamber and filter discs to make it clear if the above leaves you puzzled!

Alan

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interesting!
although I am still not clear what is going on at the back on the open to air valve.
A diagramme would be great.

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Alan must say you have an amazing workshop! green with envy... :)

i like how you have modified the exhaust for the 1CWT its more "out of the way" then the way I made mine (i have a 1CWT Pilkington)
i am interested in if your newer but almost same hammer, also have a exhaust for excess air on the back piston and if you have done anything to it

Cheers
Dan,

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Dan my rear exhaust does puff out little breathes so it is doing something there .
I have found that the drive cylinder to air valve at the back of the hammer on top is a very usefull feature as you can get quite gentle blows by opening it a little the motor defiantly has more strain when starting with the system closed.

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Here is a sketch which shows the baffle / air flow route. I must have made this contraption in the early 90's and this is from memory. The mdf seems to have stood the oil okay.
post-9203-0-70317100-1330424683_thumb.jp
The reason for trying to contain noise and oil mist was that I had a neighbour/planning problem when I built the shop to house the hammer. I have to forge with the doors closed and as it is a soundproofed and almost air tight building the noise and oil are all in there with you bouncing around!

I have a fan which gives positive pressure ventilation and a velux roof light to let out excess heat. The big furnace is out in the yard and we carry in unless we need to handle the piece on the crane.

I am at home and meant to be doing my VAT books today (instead of this!) but when I next go over to the forge I will take some photos of the systems specifically.

@Dan 'green with envy'...I used green Hammerite to cover up the multitude on all the kit and it became the company colour. I had read somewhere that green surfaces were good at absorbing the nasties in Arc glare.

My hammer stopping routine on the 3cwt is always to let the tup down with the decompression valve at the back so there is no chance of trying to start up with it under load. I either use a hook from the cylinder head to hold it up or lower it to a block on the anvil to keep the piston and cylinder surfaces sealed against errant grinding dust. Starting routine is, press start, wait for the star delta timer to switch over and then close the valve to lift the tup. First start up of the session I oil the flats on the back of the tup and delay lifting the tup until the oil pressure guage starts to pulse.

The pressure relief valve on the Master cylinder on both the 1 and 3cwt does chuff out oily air so I I have those pointing down with a bit of rag tied around them to catch the oil.

Alan

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Just looking at your earlier photos again you appear to have the model like David Petersen's which has the exhaust port on top of the rotary valve chest, so it should be quite easy to link that and the inlet port to a box on top or through the wall.

Mine has the exhaust port on the side which made it a bit messy to route the pipework. Mind you the advantage was that it gives another foothold when clambering up to undo cylinder head bolts and such!

Alan

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Yes Owen after looking at my valve and lots of turning the hammer by hand i also decided that it is only air out on mine at its that way at least
i made a cover with a 2" pipe end on it and will run a hose down to the big pipe coming from the main air in/out in front
and will run the pipe out the wall and down half way into a bucket

Thanks for all this info Alan

yes green is a lovely color http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff59/DClaville/Pilkington%20no%201%20powerhamer/

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Herewith some snaps of the 3cwt, taken hastily with my phone I am afraid, sorry about the lack of quality.

post-9203-0-56776500-1330528784_thumb.jp
post-9203-0-15790700-1330529446_thumb.jp
post-9203-0-88120700-1330528986_thumb.jp

At the risk of opening up another can of worms I can see there are a couple of other modifications shown that may be of interest:-

The flip over spacer blocks and the tool carrier frame courtesy of Clifton Ralph and others.
The crane jib pivoting around the tup so you can move in and out radially, idea for the bars which are too heavy to work by hand all day but not heavy enough to overcome the inertia of the bridge crane, think 50mm 60mm square (or 75mm if you are still in your twenties!)
The rubber buffered snatch block on the swing jib which reduces the shock.
The safety shelf to stop heavy bars and stuff falling on the pedal bar, I have put them on all the hammers and presses
The clip on foot pedals so you can operate it with both heels on the ground (essential)
The bracket to hold up the tup so that we can take out / reseat the bottom block and tool carrier etc. It is there at the moment because I needed to swing a long bar into the hammer throat that I was bending on the horizontal press next to it...the perennial problem with small space and lots of toys.
The tup normally rests on the the bolster block (which is sitting on the nearest corner of the Reiter base seen in 279) it is about 125mm high. That means that the machined surfaces of the tup and cylinder are not exposed to grinding spatter.

Alan

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thank you very much for your time to do all that.
lots too think about there.
that is without doubt one of the best set up hammers i have ever seen.
like I said lots to think about there.

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That crane is brilliant! Snatch the work out of the fire and it knows right were to go......... B)

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I'll do some vid soon.
forged the base block for a "test" anvil yesterday arvo mild body carbon face. only 20lb . face welded loverly.
something I have wanted to do for a long while and I think it will scale up to 50lb OK.
Tooling next week ...

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Hey Blackersmith I agree wholeheartedly about the 2 heels on the ground, I see vid of blokes using a hammer while standing on one foot, using the other foot to drive with, like how long can you do that for? I certainly can't do that all day.

Phil

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Hey Blackersmith I agree wholeheartedly about the 2 heels on the ground, I see vid of blokes using a hammer while standing on one foot, using the other foot to drive with, like how long can you do that for? I certainly can't do that all day. Phil


Standing on one foot is not only tiring, it's dangerous. When things go wrong having two feet on the deck will get you the heck out of Dodge a whole lot quicker.

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At the risk of sidetracking the thread too far away from Owen's hammer christening, the one foot issue is very important. I stress to anybody using my hammer to keep their weight on the back foot even though the temptation to lean forward is great because the treadle is heavy. They must be able to get their foot off the pedal at the slightest sign of trouble...not take the weight off and then take their foot off, that is too slow. I get them to practice dry and if I ever see them starting to lean forward onto the pedal in use I point and shout!

The worst hammer I ever used was responsible for my slipped disc. One of Brian Russell's, a 3cwt Massey with slides had the frame set at floor level so the anvil was very low and the pedal was so high you knee was round your ear. I demonstrated punching a hole through a bit of 50mm square at a forge-in on it and the combination of bending double, right foot up in the air, and lifting my end of the 50mm up with tongs was too much for my back!

Be warned!

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I'll do some vid soon. forged the base block for a "test" anvil yesterday arvo mild body carbon face. only 20lb . face welded loverly. something I have wanted to do for a long while and I think it will scale up to 50lb OK. Tooling next week ...


"Test" anvil?
Arvo?

Please expand!

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