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I Forge Iron

lease your shop?


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Recently a lighting company who i have made a few iron chandeleirs for, asked me if they could use my shop and spare forge to make some wrought ironworks. They would bring all tools and had a Mexican blacksmith and two helpers to do the work. Intriged but cautious i agreed to a daily cash payment of $50.00. The gang arrived friday morning, loaded down with brand new tools and equipment, the boss had my large propane tank filled ($80.00!)and the smith used my whisper daddy and 250lb mousehole anvil, to make his scroll jigs (ok) and a bending fork (correct) the helpers were using the brand new Milwaukee bandsaw with glee and wonder. in their village there is no electric and a hacksaw is hi tech. this smith (and he is) learned forging at his brothers forge near Nuevo Laredo. Miguel has a little english and his helpers do not, told me he was shot by accident when the Mayor was assasinated last year, and came across in January with his wife and three kids. Ok.. before y'all start, i know they are illegals and the lighting company is breaking the law hiring them dont ask me i just rent the space. These guys WORKED a solid 36 hrs straight from friday till saturday and were still at it when i left my shop saturday at 4 pm.Miguel is making a stair railing from 5/8" square bar with cast collars and a design in the rail of two C scrolls facing each other tapered by hand from a 45% cut. with a bent bar top and bottom , framing two S scrolls back to back, all welded by the helper with a new Miller 250 M.I.G. Like me Miguel doesn't try to make a C scroll in one piece. They welded them and grinded the weld ( nicely done) I truly cannot fault his smithing abilities he knows nothing about coal or a power hammer. His brother has a whisper daddy forge also Miguel already knew about regulating the gas to slow down consumption when not raising a heat.I was glad they swept up after working nearly 40 hrs nonstop. and will be watching them monday for something to report. Dont get on me about laws, i seem to have forgot to ask EPA if my coal forge is compliant with their emmissions laws, 17 years ago ..how lax

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I dont want to turn this into a political discussion about the good or bad of people being in this country illegally... I'll just say that if the "person" is a hard working skilled contributing (by contributing I mean pays taxes and obeys the same employment rules as I do) I dont personally have an issue with them... The ones who come to abuse the system are the ones I dont want here..

Anyway I guess it depends on what it cost you to be there... If $50 a day puts money in your pocket and they are not tearing up your stuff then it sounds like it could be fun for a while anyway.. I always enjoy working with new people and seeing what I can learn

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I always make my c scrolls in one piece once you find the right length takes 2 or 3 tries you can make them all day long. It saves a lot of labor and consumables. Also more time at the forge less time with the grinder and that makes me happy and less dirty. I once did a fencing job with 800 c-scrolls. 50 bucks a day seems cheep to me but if you have the room and its not slowing you down go for it. I have a hard time condemning people who are just trying to provide for their families even though they are taking away potential work from me. What bothers me more is lazy citizens who live off the system and billion dollar corporations who pay no taxes Who are following the "rules".

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..... before y'all start, i know they are illegals and the lighting company is breaking the law hiring them dont ask me i just rent the space.


there are honest and legal ways to work in the states. You are part of the problem. And you posting this in this large site with at least 4 or 5 active law enforcement members just confessing to a crime was not smart.

The smart thing would have been to Bid the job and do it yourself.
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A solid fifty a day, works for us both I am enjoying just not being alone, for a change. These guys are the future for us in the deep south , such energy wont stay employees long. My African American part time helper is shocked and dismayed "Now they are into welding!"

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you realize that if they get hurt and sue you loose everything... i bet there isnt a insurance in the world that will protect you... and just because they dont know english dosent mean that they wont find a lawyer (all over the tv here) ide not expose myself that way ...dosent matter if your hireing um or not...

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It is not a felony. It is not his responsibility or or even his right to check on the immigration status of the employee of a renter. Furthermore the person paying the rent is responsible for them not rusty. All he can do is tell them to leave. Perhaps we should get the secret police to water board Rusty .

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I think they get $10.00 an hour cash (more worms) a weeks wages back home for 36 hrs here. Miguel has his family here, the helpers send all they can back home. We stop the illegals it would be a disaster on Both sides of the border.

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I am not against immigration, just illegal immigration. With that being said, I told a friend of mine an observation I have made over the years. When was the last time you saw a Latino begging on the street? I see a lot of non-Latinos asking for free $ who look like they could do a days work instead of being out in front of a big box store, or nursery willing to work for their $$. We have become spoiled here in the land of plenty.

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This thread could turn political very quickly.
IForgeIron is not about politics, a race, or a ethnic group, or etc etc. IT IS about blacksmithing.

Please keep the subject matter on blacksmithing.

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The problem is that as long as they have places willing to hire them they will keep coming here. Who can fault the ones wanting to make a better life for themselves? I only have fault with how they came to be here. Border fences, raids, and other means of "stopping" illegal immigration will not work unless the employers are also targeted, and fined enough to make it not worth the risk when hiring illegals. That is the correct term by the way , illegal immigrant, not undocumented alien, or undocumented Democrat, just illegal immigrant.

These workers are being taken advantage of in a lot of cases. Either by the coyotes that brought them across the border, the employers, or the bosses who are the liaison between the workers, and the employer.

To say that this is the future here is wrong, very wrong. Fundamental changes need to be made here in the USA in regards to immigration, welfare-gov't dole, and people's attitudes towards work. I think a lot of folks would do the jobs that "only the illegals will do" if they got hungry enough. We have gotten complacent.

I remember watching a show on the French wine industry. They showed the workers in the field picking the grapes, and I was thinking to myself "something doesn't look right." Then it hit me. It was that the pickers were caucasian, not Mexicans. Growing up in CA with friends who owned a vineyard, and just 30 minutes from Napa, you got used to seeing the Mexicans in the fields. In the central valley it was the Asians picking the strawberries.

Something needs to change, and soon.

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You mentioned the new equipment they bring in and the long hours and diversity of work they are willing to do....so I would think you are looking for a comment there.
I do not know the specifics of the situation, but $50 seems low. Then again, judging by the production and investment by the owner, in another month or two I would think they will be set up in another shop all their own.

I worked with a Cuban while in Florida (he was legal just in case you are asking)..very hard working and smart man...three years in he had his own shop on the side and last I heard he was at it full time there. I expect the same from these folk.
I have seen similar smiths in Panama and Guatemala (years ago when the US Army sent me there)..very few tools and filling the needs of the population quite well. One even had an electric "welder" made with some wraps of copper in a bucket of water and a thin wire to the overhead lightbulb for juice...coat hangers as rods for joining and a borax slurry for the flux.
Very much a "have a need find a solution type of arrangement".


Ric

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I think $50 a day is a really fair price. I have a person who leases shop space from me for $500 a month and other artists and a bladesmith who comes in for $15 hr. I really have not had any problems so far. I hope it works out for you too.

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Hmmm- $50 a day. Seems low to me but then it sounds like they worked over the weekend so it didn't disrupt your production. I imagine they could burn a good portion of that in electricity in a day with lots of welding and cutting....
I was approached about renting my shop by the hour. I basically took what it cost me to have and equip for an hour and rounded it to the nearest 10. I think I used a 4% ROI on the tools, land and building. My only requirement was if they used a lot of fuel, they replace it.

I hope it works out for you!
As far as the other part of your post, thats another topic for another forum :)

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I do not have pictures and as soon as a railing is finished it is off to a sandblaster/painters. It is unlikely it will come back. Steve, i had no opportunity to bid on the job, and am slightly upset with the chandeleir shop branching out into wrought iron railings. Miguel is BIG! as big as any NFL linebacker. He smites with force. Uses a new one lb ballpeen with a fiberglass handle. I should let him use a good hammer, but why? I was not hired to teach.

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<vent> I once worked fabricating rails with a guy who replaced me with a mostly hard working, smart, older (than me) Mexican happily willing to work longer hours for cash under the table. It bothered me when brought back in to work on larger projects, when the boss was out of the shop... the sort of time that was wasted by the guy was absurd.. It was never noticed and because I'm a younger green horn I felt like when he got back I shouldered the blame silently. When I got sick of it and brought it to the bosses attention via email it was barely acknowledged. He is a busy guy and didn't read them personally or carefully enough I can only assume. When I tried to bring it up after work one day I was ignored more or less. I quit after thinking about it to work somewhere else full time. Not be taken advantage of by being pulled in to help only when a shop is over worked because of lazy employees. I'm starting a family and while I learned a lot from the guy and respect him I can't stand back and watch him be taken advantage of hoping to eventually earn full time hours. Hopefully I'll find that job soon. :lol: </vent> -Greg D. Price Jr.

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It is not a felony. It is not his responsibility or or even his right to check on the immigration status of the employee of a renter. Furthermore the person paying the rent is responsible for them not rusty. All he can do is tell them to leave. Perhaps we should get the secret police to water board Rusty .


NY must be a lot different than Indiana, here it is a crime. A landlord is held accountable for everything that happens on his property. One block away, a neighbor was arrested, and the rental he was living in was seized by the FBI, and the Landlord was also charged for maintaining a nuisance, and accessory, by the feds.

This property was a rental and the owner was also charged... I repeated so no one thinks its a typo, this property sold for only $25K at the Govt auction, partly because the in-side was trashed badly from the raid. But the USA is still a semi-free country, believe as you wish, but it wont make it go away.

OnR was the scapegoat in case they did get caught, a lighting company had them work away from their property to protect themselves. Criminals get arrested and lie all the time, why wont rusty get pulled into it? he took the hush money, and posted he knew they were illegal, and they were in his shop working. I am trying to keep OnR (and others) out of jail, not place him there.
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No one came today, I received no fone calls from the lighting co. they owe me for saturday, thats all i care about. I did hear on "da street" "da hood" is gonna call immigration. I hope not ,I wanted to ask Miguel what his brother's main work is in their village, and if he forge welds, and all them blacksmith questions I never got to ask while he was working.

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