swiftden Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hello I am new to all this but i do have a welder and can use it. I am thinking of making a swage block since they a pretty rare beasts around here. I thought i might try this. http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/anvils/making/fabricated_swage_block.php Once i have made it and got it all smooth etc. Should it be heat treated in any way to make it harder or stronger? Regards Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Wow Allan, You are ambitious. Good for you. Its those with ambition and dreams that seem to make a difference and go farther. I can offer you no advice other than to keep at it. Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 When my Dad, and I were taking welding classes at the local community college he wrote a program for a swage block for the CNC torch. They had thick scrap plate for 10 cents a pound, and Dad burned a few out of the plates available. The cuts are clean enough to pretty much use as is. You may want to inquire around at your local CC's welding class to see what is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Allan, Swage blocks sure are rarer than anvils. However one is on ebay Australia at the moment; probably only for 'watchers' interest it is at $411 with 21 hrs to go! (search; SWAGE BLOCK VINTAGE BLACKSMITHS RARE ITEM IN TOP COND). They DO turn up though, unless you are real keen and/or have an immediate use for one i'd just keep my eyes peeled. A handful have been through ebay over the last year. Again, unless you are real keen, have the precise design in mind and have the exact materials and set up to fabricate one.... I got mine new from Paul Westra some 13 years ago (and haven't even finished fettling it!). Last I heard (a few years ago) they were over $350, I don't know if he is still making them- ask Moony on the forum, he might know. regs, AndrewOC PS if you explore the profile-cut-thick-plate method, tell us how you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftden Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yeah saw that one but it is in the wrong state and wont freight it i dont mind having a go at making one and see what the result is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Old time swage blocks were cast iron so a steel swageblock probably does not need heat treat. However, I have found it generally easier to make up swages for use in my hardy hole for ones I need often and the swageblock I've owned since 1981 gets used only for "odd" swages seldom used. One trick I learned is for my shop anvil with large hardy holes 1.5" (3.81 cm) was to take top swages and forge the back ends down to fit my anvil's hardy holes. If I ever want to make them top tools again I can drift the eyes back out for a handle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftden Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 Well this is my plan so far. Mostly made from 100mm x 20mm bar with pipe and rods to fill. what do you all think ? An idea on if an dhow i should harden it ? or should i leave it as is. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Better yet, take the solid version to a fab shop, and have them burn one out for you. Easy with one of the old photo eye units. New CNC's can even use a scanned image. If they don't have thick plate, burn thinner ones, and weld those together. Making one by welding a bunch of little bits together will be a ton of cutting, clamping, and even more welding. I would also suspect that warpage will be a problem with that much bead being laid down. Not trying to discourage you, but when there are faster, and probably less expensive in the long run, options available........... I have the blocks that my Dad made years ago, and have yet to use one. If you use mild steel, heat treating is a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftden Posted March 25, 2011 Author Share Posted March 25, 2011 bigundoctor what do you mean by the mild steel and heat treating ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Many times you can find a curve, angle, etc by turning the anvil on its side or on its end. The curve between the feet, the curve between the feet and body, or the curve between the feet and heel of the anvil are very useful. Make up the swage shape you need as a hardie tool for the anvil. I have a set of V tools where angle iron was welded to a hardie plate and post. There is another set of different size pipe, cut in half and welded to a hardie plate and post. The set I use often is the round cylinders welded to a hardie plate and post. One thing for sure, you can move a hardie tool a lot easier than you can a 175 pound swage block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 True Mild steel doesn't harden---that's why it's *mild*. A-36 can harden a bit in aggressive quenchants---like Super Quench; but the stress on all those welds will be a bit extreme. If you go with medium to high carbon steel for construction it will probably cost more than buying an old one and you *STILL* will have great problems heat treating it! (Talk to a pro heat treater that shape with thick thin, piercings, etc is a nightmare to get to come out uncracked, hardened and unwarped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 As I have been told in the past, you can start to get some hardening after you hit around 25 points of carbon. Mild steels like 1018 just don't have enough in them to do anything. Even with say 30 points of carbon things will get tough, but not brittle hard in my experience. The more carbon the harder it can get with proper heat treating. Cruise the scrapyards, and look for some thick plate. Even unhardened mild steel will do, as long as you keep your items hot when you work them. Make some mini swages out of forklift tines which are very tough as is. I posted the alloys from a couple of manufactures that got back with me on the thread about tines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale Russell Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Allan , i'm about to start making up a pattern to give to Paul Westra to cast up for me . When ready i'll ave these for sale OZ wide Ladle , spoon , fire shovel depressions with edge shapes I'll let every 1 know when theys ready Dale Russell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Fraser Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I first started working in the forge in 1976. Saw a picture of a swadge block in one of the books I bought and I wanted one so bad. Every time I went any where I would stop at any place that I thought might have one for sale. In 10 years I missed 10 of them. Finely I found one in a yard in Milton- Freewater, Oregon that had 10 or 15 acres of really cool stuff, including 6 triphammers 2 cone mandrels and some anvils. I asked the owner how much for the swadge block, he said that he would not sell it now but to check with him next year. Every year I would go back and he would tell me the same thing. I told a friend of mine that if I ever got the first one I would probably have a dozen of them by the end of the year. The next year I borrowed one from another friend, then a artist came to the foundry I was working at and traded me a 300 lb block for one of my knives, I was given one more, I traded for another one. I happen to be going through Milton-Freewater so I stopped by the yard where I had seen the first one 10 years before and out of habit I said to the owner, you don't want to sell your swadge block yet do you? he said yea I'll sell it $50.00. By the end of the year I had 5 of them in the shop. I kept 3 of them. I don't use them much, but when I need them they are great to have. If I was going to build one I would have the shape cut out 3/4'' mild steel plate with a computer controlled laser cutter, including a large rivet hole in each corner. Then stack 3 or 4 plates together and counter sink the out side rivet holes and rivet them together, and grind the rivets flush. Now if the block gets beat up bad enough you could weld up the big dents and grind them back to shape. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 I say build it and take lots of pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftden Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 I have not picked up or cut the steel yet . I have ony put pen to paper planning and drawing the plan to actual size. not sure what i am doing with it yet . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiftden Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 Dale is this the sort of block you are talking about ? http://www.saltforkcraftsmen.org/swage.shtml Regards Allan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Here are some pictures of the swage blocks that my Dad burned out on the CNC torch at the college. The big one is 12"x12'x2.5", the small one is a 50% copy which is easily done with a CNC. The cut edges could be used as they were very smooth cuts. When the torch is set up correctly with the right size tip, and the pressures right you get clean very cuts without slag stuck to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Option A) you need welding practice and the steel is free. Go for it! Great experience and a chance to say "I made that fine tool" for the rest of your life. You grandkids can probably say "Grandpa made that fine tool" too. Option Steel is not free. Suddenly having it burned out of a plate seems a better deal. Option A is still on the table. Option C) a block becomes available by whatever means, do you have the cash to get it? It is an ambitious plan, best of luck however it goes. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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