What Should I Start With?

[BikeBrewer]

Hi,

I'm starting to set up a hobby smith workshop and I'm wondering what I should start with for welding. I eventually want to get into stainless and aluminum welding with the capability to so sanitary welds. I have no formal training at all, but I've welded with stick, mig, and tig, including stainless and titanium. I was a crappy stick welder, but I did all right with mig and tig through practice, as I was always basically just shown the equipment and told to go at it. I haven't done any welding for years, but I have grad level courses in welding theory, metallurgy, and microstructual elements in metals, though I need to re-read the texts.

I'm on a limited budget right now, but would rather buy the right equipment first, though my budget would be limited to $750 at the high end. Initially I'm looking just at dealing with mild steel, so I could work with an oxy/acetylene set-up, if that's the way to go right now.

Thoughts or recommendations?

Mark

[Old N Rusty]

buy a victor torch kit and a "crackerbox" a/c stick rod machine then have some money left over for an anvil use the e-6011 white rods and have fun!

[nuge]

I agree with Mr. Rusty. If you can weld with gas, all the other processes come easy. Plus you get the ability to heat metal with the torch which is indispensable. If you buy new, this might eat the whole budget as the tanks aren't cheap. If you have a little time you should be able to craigslist the torch and a buzzbox, which would be a be a good compliment to the oxy/acetylene.

[Glenn]

Buy the crackerbox for under $300 new and a 50 pound box of welding rod. Study the literature available on Lincolnelectric.com, millerwelds.com and other similar sites and by the time you finished the box of welding rod you should know if you need professional help or not (pun intended).

[arftist]

All of the above. Buy a torch with cutting and welding tips and be on the lookout for a good deal on a buzz box.

[Alphonse]

All of the above. Buy a torch with cutting and welding tips and be on the lookout for a good deal on a buzz box.

I agree about the buzz box stick welder, as many have said, AC will do just about anything expensive DC, AC/DC welders can, and will weld more steels with sure welds than MIG.

Here is a video I just made outlining how well AC welding can do the job in a small shop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0I6XylXwis&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

First off, some more info would help. What thickness of materials, what sizes, ornamental, structural (trailers, etc), are you wanting to work with?



I would take a different approach though, especially with what you spelled out that you want to eventually get into. Watch Craigslist, I recently saw a 300 amp Lincoln TIG sell for $300. My 350 amp industrial Linde TIG was bought at an auction for $250. TIGs double as stick welders, and in the end you have far better capabilities. Sheet to plate welding in steel, stainless, aluminum, magnesium, and more.

I have purchased a couple of 200 amp MIGs for $400ea one Lincoln, and one Miller. A MIG will give you steel, stainless, and aluminum capabilities, as well as better performance with thin sheet materials. Argon is needed for SS, and Aluminum, and a plastic gun liner for the aluminum. The MIG will weld outside in the wind with core wire, inexpensive CO2 for inside welding with bare wire.

Yes an AC buzz box can do a lot of work-almost every week I saw the old Lincoln tombstones at garage sales for $50, but after using a good AC/DC welder I haven't felt the need for one myself. I would push for DC capabilities myself. 7018 runs sweet on DC reverse, again more capabilities. Stainless, aluminum, and sheet are a bit more work than with a MIG, or TIG. You can use short bits of MIG core wire in an arc welder for thin sheet though.

Mild steel for now-- get a 200 amp MIG, and run core wire. No gas needed, quick, and easy. My Lincoln SP-100 110V MIG gets used constantly around the house. Again, depends on your usage.

I have O/A torches, and parts coming out my ears, but I haven't used one in years at home. The one at work gets used for silver soldering, and quick heat treats. It all depends on what your requirements are. Do you need to heat material to bend? Cut shapes in plate? Where would you need portable heating, and cutting capabilities? I can't answer that for you. You are not going to cut aluminum, or stainless with an O/A torch. I use a Milwaukee Porta-band, or recip saws at home. No heat, no sparks, fast, and cleanly cuts different alloys-$50-$125 on CL. If you need to cut big plates, or other contoured shapes a torch could come in handy, but you may want to save up for a used plasma cutter to do stainless, and aluminum too.

Again, it depends on what you need, not what we need. For a $750 "hobby" shop I would say; 200a on up MIG welder, drill press, porta band, and some classes at the local junior college welding dept. Scrounge Craigslist everyday, hit pawn shops, garage sales, flea markets, and auctions for the big items. I averaged 10 cents on the dollar at machine shop auctions.

[clinton]

Bigunn is right on here, he has given some good advice. The point that he made on dc current is worth repeating, ac is not the best choice of current for welding most metals (you do need it for tig welding aluminum). Watch craigslist and you can get yourself a good stick welder and a small 110 volt mig welder. Here are a couple of pictures of what I would look for, older Lincoln Idealarc 250 (very heavy and very durable, there are 3 of these machines at our local college that have been in service with no problems for over 30 years) Two guys can not pick one of these up you need a hoist or roll it into a trailer. These welders are selling here for $200- $300, and sometimes they come up lower $100- $150 (they sell fast at that price- real fast)
This is the Lincoln SP 100 (an older one I do not recommend the newer Lincolns) If it is not this shape it is a newer one, also the drive roll feeds off the top of the roll of wire, see the picture- the older ones feed off the bottom of the roll
I picked this one up in like new condition, the guy had not even used all of the little 1 pound roll of wire that it came with, I think I gave him around $250 for it, I got another one for my brother that was well used for $125. You can do a lot with one of these little welders, I prefer to just run inner-shield NR211 wire .035 diameter, I have repaired water tanks with this and paid for itself in less than 4 hours.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Yep Clinton, those SP-100's are a nice little unit. What I really like about it is that it has a totally variable voltage dial, not the 4-5 heat ranges that the newer ones have.


BikeBrewer, just some more info on welder markings

MIG welders- the voltage stays constant, and the amperage varies. CV = constant voltage

TIG/STICK welders-the amperage stays constant, and the voltage varies. CC = constant current.

DCEN / DCEP DC electrode negative (straight polarity), and positive (reverse polarity). DC current has the electrons flow from - to +.

When TIG welding aluminum/magnesium you use AC current to help flush out the impurities in the base metal. I have welded a lot of VW, and motorcycle parts, and believe me that they have lots of impurities in them if they are oil soaked. Even repeated cleanings, and heating doesn't get it all out. Aluminum takes quite a bit of oomph to weld due to its heat conduction capabilities. I wouldn't go lower than a 200A unit personally if you plan on doing any aluminum. Something else you can do with a TIG is use the foot control when stick welding. Doing this allows you to adjust the heat as you are welding. Really nice to be able to ease back on the power as you get to an edge.