314marka Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 i am trying to get into blacksmithing, and tried it for the first time the other day with what little tools i have. Anyway, i had a 1/2" thick steel billet that i was messing around with, but when i had it yellow hot, it was not as easy to be bent/etc as i think it should be...i'm i just not getting it hot enough?...wrong type of metal?....am i simply not hitting the metal hard enough? i would appreciate any advice thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 What size hammer are you using? What length was the peice? 1/2 inch is pretty stout to bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
314marka Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 i was using a 3 lb hammer, and the piece i was using was actually just an old piece of rebar that i found layin around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
314marka Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 the piece was probably about 3 feet long, and the area that i had yellow hot was probably like a foot...maybe a tad less, so, i had pretty much leverage if that is what you are thinking about as far as the bending part goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Rebar is like the hotdog of the blacksmithing world. It's made up of random scrap off the metal shop floor. Who knows what's in it. I'd suggest getting some regular stock and seeing how that goes for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
314marka Posted December 15, 2006 Author Share Posted December 15, 2006 where is the best place to get a good piece to work with? I know there are different grades of iron and steel, some harder than others; do u think it would be a good idea to start with a softer metal, or a specific type that is particularly malleable...if such a metal exists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith Jim Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Most modern smiths use mild steel for general forging. Tool steels are used for making tools etc.. If you want to find cheap random metal, I suggest finding a local scrap steel yard. I hit mine up once ever two weeks or so and just purchase random pieces that I think would be fun to work with or that fit a project I might be mulling over in my mind. When I first started out I bought some of my steel from Home Depot or Jerry's Home Improvement center, etc. Mainly because I had not gone to a scrap steel yard before so it was a bit out of my element. The home supply stores have decent steel, but it costs 3x as much as it should. However, if you just want 1 piece to play with because you are just starting, then I don't think its a big deal to drop 4 or 5 dollars on a piece of steel. Good luck! Keep banging away and you'll start to get a feel for it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Another (usually) untapped source of scrap steel is from a local fabricator, such as a gate manufactor, fence builder, etc. Go to the office, introduce yourself, and tell them what you want. (take safety glasses, gloves, and a hard hat) Most likely they will let you 'dive the dumpster' for small pieces of scrap. Don't be greedy and possibly you will get to come back. On your second trip think about taking them something you have made from your 'find' in their dumpster. leaf key fob, candle holder, "S" hooks, "J" hooks, anything. They will problably enjoy it and appreciate the fact you are trying to learn a "lost and dying art". !! My best friend has a shop like mentioned above and he lets me have his 'drops'. Mostly 1/2" and 5/8" square although I do get rounds and different types of tubing. And never get greedy. I also take him my scrap and dump it in his scrap bins...after all, he sells his scrap to the local scrap yard and most of MY scrap started out as HIS scrap. (and I made a BUNCH of scrap when I first started learning this wonderful skill of blacksmithing. Good luck and let us know how it works out for you. Pictures too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 314Marka; the best place for you to buy metal is *right* over there! I'd go right now and get some! Now if you were in Columbus or Dayton OH or Las Cruces NM or Fayetteville AR I can suggest a couple of specific places... You don't generally by smithing metal from the web so it's a location specific item and your location is ??????????? (I'm in central NM) Have you checked the yellow pages? Call around some places have a min order or charge a lot for cuts. Steel is often sold by 20' lengths which can be difficult to carry in a standard car. I generally got my stuff from the scrap bin of a fab shop or a junkyard that would let you rummage the piles, or stuff thrown out in illegal dump sites or even the scrap piles of other smiths. There are some very low carbon alloys that are very soft at yellow but cost more to buy and so most smiths just use A36 steel---what you generally get when you ask for "steel" at a sales outlet. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsparky1807 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Another beginner question how can you tell the difference in steal when you go to a scrap yard , went to a welder's shop today to get a project welded for a hardy hole . When we were finished with discussing my drawing and needs , I told him what it was for and what I had done to make a cut off and what I used . He threw me a piece of round stock he said would work for me . It was part of a shaft off a large electric motor he said , is it good steal and can you use it to make hardy tools with ? Thanks for any advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Generaly shafting is medium carbon steel, so maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsparky1807 Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Thank you Mr. Stevens knew you would have the answer , asked it on the hardy topic also to see if it would work also . But first to the scrap yard for some more metal that you and others said will work . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I can't get any of the scrap yards to let me In to pick anything up, usually the Tried and True Liability issue. That included one we shipped 40,000 lbs of scrap machines to 3 months before. There was a new scrap yard opened a couple miles from me, so I loaded up a load of crap that I needed to get rid of in a move and went down. They were about to buy when I asked about looking over what they had in the yard. They said "Oh No" zoning said no retail sales were allowed. I thanked them jumped back in my truck and took my stuff home. They have called twice wanting to buy but still will not let me in. Not sure where it is going but I've unloaded it and have found more to ad to the pile. I have a couple garages that let me have coil springs, and some tie rods off some Ford 4x4 Pickups from time to time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I'd ask for the cite on the zoning law and go look it up. If they can't provide it when it's central to their business I'd go talk with code enforcement. I could understand their insurance company forbidding them; but zoning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Did you ever look at who sits on your local "Zoning Board" ?Generally, ... you'll find Realtors and Real Estate Developers who are pushing their own projects through the process, ... and anyone else is most likely a "retired" person, with too much free time.This does NOT make for thoughtful, or intelligent Zoning Laws. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottMitUns Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sirsparks, try looking for a video of a "spark test" on a grinding wheel. I will try to explain as best I can but others are a lot better at this than me. when grinding look at the sparks generated, if they shoot off in a straight line and then go out it probably low carbon steel. if they start as one spark and then kind of pop into many this may be high carbon steel. If you have a grinder try this. First grind a lawn mower blade or store bought chisel and look at the sparks, then do the same thing with a piece of angle iron or square tubing. I don't know how scientific or un-scientific this is but it is a place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GottMitUns Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 SirSparks, Just re read your post and realized you were talking about "in the field" tests. there was a post on here somewhere about that but I don't know where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 You're right Mitts, he did, it slipped my mind. <sigh> There are lists of field identifying steel types by artifact: coil spring = x,y,or z. Valve stems = m,p, or q. Torsion bars = t, w, i, or ding. etc.Modern steels change and devices are being performance specced so the specific type of steel isn't as important as it's performance. Makes ID-ing harder.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsparky1807 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Thank you Gottmituns and frosty I know its in here some where about testing it at the shop had read it once before , want to read it again and take some notes to keep it close at hand . The big thing is for a field test right now looking for good steel to make tools with , most would say go buy it that's not half the fun the quest and making it yourself is what keeps it fun . Have been on a quest for a while for a post vice and hope after this weekend that will be over also , so thanks for your help ill give it all a try and keep reading and looking for the post on here also . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Well my junkyard test is to figure out what it was used for previously---did the manufacturer *NEED* to pay extra for a high carbon alloy and deal with the problems working it. If not they probably didn't. (When was the last time you went into a lumberyard and told them you need to buy 1000 fence posts but want to pay $10 a post extra so they would made a way you didn't need them to be?) The problem is that manufacturers are always trying to make things cheaper so even with a list you can go wrong---and most lists are wrong to start with in places. One well know list says that jackhammer bits are S7 because Machinerys Handbook says that that is a great alloy for making them. A fellow who has repointed over a million of them says he has seen only a spare handful that were not around 1050 as 1050 will do and is a heck of a lot cheaper! (Titanium would make great car bodies and frames---you seen any on the road? Solid gold makes great cookware, got any in your kitchen?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) One pickup truck axle will make your hot hardy and other bottom tools, most top tools and a raft of hammers. There's a point where looking for the "perfect" . . . anything becomes detrimental. Perfect doesn't exist, even the "best for x" isn't practical. Good enough is usually a bit better than good enough. Outside of certain artistic elements shooting for perfect or even best is a bad thing.Charles has laid out an outstanding hardy that's easy to forge or just saw and grind one made from leaf spring. What you forged from rebar, if made from on old axle and refined a bit would be in your tool kit when you left it to your grand kids. No fooling.We all go through the finding the best tools we can find phase when getting into a new craft, it's normal human behavior. It's just something to unlearn so you can get on with it. Seriously, do you think legends like Samuel Yellin, etc. spent a lot of time making tools perfect? I'll bet he had shelves, boxes and piles of close enough tools he left to his kids.It ain't the tools that do the work.Frosty The Lucky. Edited July 10, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 an other choice is a you pull auto parts yard they give away tire irons here. Just walk around and you can find springs on the ground. I like to just go to a metal supplier and picksome 1/2" square stock its not that expensive it you stick to hot roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redd1981 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 marka where are you located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 an other choice is a you pull auto parts yard they give away tire irons here. Just walk around and you can find springs on the ground. I like to just go to a metal supplier and picksome 1/2" square stock its not that expensive it you stick to hot rollFrancis, that idea of the "you pull auto parts" is a great one, thanks for sharing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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