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I can agree, when I was taking websites, people would say "well I started it, but didn't finish it, can you make it like WWW.qwerty.com or like abcd.com with what I have?" with only a few tags was the small print.
or my favorite, "can you give it more neon, or pop, or just something that reaches out and catches your eye?" only to realize that they wanted their site in neon pink with neon green secondary with mouse tail effects and radiating stars from every letter.... yeah I spent 6-7 months in class on how NOT to make a website. If you get a good web designer, you will pay for it, but it will show.

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I can agree, when I was taking websites, people would say "well I started it, but didn't finish it, can you make it like WWW.qwerty.com or like abcd.com with what I have?" with only a few tags was the small print.


And that, my friend, is why I stopped accepting freelance work from small businesses, family members or "friends of a friend" five years ago. I'd rather tar a roof in July than go back to dealing with that kind of hideous nonsense.
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Yeah thats the problem with anything web related and probably computer related, ....
All the more reason to get the latest info from the web.....

Thank you for the urls. Back in my previous life I was a software engineer, and was the guy that management expected to educate the rest of the staff on the language/software of the month, we did some web coding in HTML. Seeing what folks are doing with code is interesting. Seeing what many web sites look like tends to be disappointing to say the least, especially when it comes to ease of use and just plain basic functionality and appearance issues.
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HTML5 is only relevant if you work for a startup company in silicon valley................ In all other settings it's a buzzword.


That is a very incorrect statement/assumption, html5 is VERY relevant, any developer worth his salt is already coding using the new spec, or at very least is working towards implementing it, a simple google of the subject will verify that. I personally have
been using the spec on for the last year.

In fact it is easier for an individual who is attempting to code his own website for the first time to start with html5/css3, than a development company who has 50 coders and 50 design staff. For the simply reason they also have 10 years of reusable code, libraries, and existing projects to convert. Very often it is easier and cost effective to just leave it as is, if it works. However the downside to this, is that in the long run the growth and development of the web in general is compromised.

It is that mindset and certain companies that attempt to control the development of the web by forcing proprietary software onto unsuspecting or ill read developers, that has lead to the situation of no standards that result in browser incompatibility, the
need for 'hacks" to make things work and a million other issues.

If you cant or wont write decent up to date code, then do as Jymm Hoffman does, use an off the shelf framework, there are many that are backed by thousands of open source coders that will do the job properly. I wont attempt to try and list them all, if you cant find them then you should not be coding a web site.

But here is one workable html5/css3 framework, seen this is about using html5

http://www.52framework.com/
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That is a very incorrect statement/assumption, html5 is VERY relevant, any developer worth his salt is already coding using
the new spec, or at very least is working towards implementing it, a simple google of the subject will verify that. I personally have
been using the spec on for the last year.



Don't think your early adoption is a hallmark of what the rest of the industry is doing. Browser support for the major features in 5 is still lagging, especially in the corporate arena. For projects that require legacy browser support implementing HTML5 requires a huge raft of javascript hacks and other browser-specific failover nonsense. Most paying clients aren't going to foot the tab for that kind of redundancy, especially for a handful of canvas bling that can just as easily be implemented in actionscript with full cross-browser support and better performance.


IIf you cant or wont write decent up to date code, then do as Jymm Hoffman does, use an off the shelf framework, there are many
that are backed by thousands of open source coders that will do the job properly. I wont attempt to try and list them all, if you cant find
them then you should not be coding a web site.


I think you need to ratchet your technical zealotry back a notch there, bub. HTML5 is great if you're working for a startup, doing a dinky little one-off project that doesn't need legacy support or you're working with a bottomless budget. There are solid business and technical reasons for not implementing a project in HTML5, most of which involve performance and legacy browser support.

For you to imply I don't know my craft because I don't agree with your worldview is not only profoundly offensive, it's misguided. I've suggested that non-technical individuals need not bother wading into the middle of what is essentially an early-adoption phase of a draft spec that isn't even fully implemented in the latest generation browsers. Ask me again when IE 6/7 aren't a going concern and I'll probably answer differently.

My credentials: I'm a contributing developer to the Drupal CMS project (http://drupal.org/), co-maintainer of 7 contributed modules, I've got patch code in 10 others and I've got code in version 7 of core. My code is peer reviewed and running on 9,000+ websites. I've consulted on projects for fortune 100 companies, Amnesty International, the ACLU and the United Nations (to name a few).
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  • 2 weeks later...

I personally have taken he time to pick up some of the new html5/css3 stuff, however it is not always necessary to use it. If I just want to make a custom home page I don't need html 5 interface, but if am building a site for someone, sure I would use it. Really it comes down to the preference of the programmer, and the budget...

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Yeah I agree, it is a matter of preference, the web is by nature a loosely typed beast and very forgiving of badly typed code, be it html or css or most of the scripting languages.

There is absolutely no reason why you cant code in one of the older html specs, for most applications if not all, it will work just as well as anything scripted in the latest spec.

I just wanted to suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of learning something new, then why learn a standard that will be deprecated in relatively short space of time?

You might as well learn the latest coding standards, methodology etc etc, not so?

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  • 3 weeks later...

well if you are reading this topic and really have no idea what to do for a website and are discourage when you see the word "code," look into wordpress. Its a "blog setup" but there are templates that you can use and make a nice presentation --as there are for many other types of sites. When you hear blog you probably thing online journal. Which it can be very easily. It also can be setup like a portfolio that helps get the point across to your clients. In the end you work does the talking and with minimal knowledge about code, wordpress is pretty appealing. With that said, if you can use Microsoft Word, you can use wordpress.

Knowing how to edit and create code is always a plus. Though in 2011 is not always necessary. Again I am talking to those whom are looking into a website with the budget and skills they have available. I understand what that is like. I watched my dads website get built and, in my opinion, was distractingly tacky and made the branding of the business a chore when I took over.

Here are some examples of wordpress sites that I did / modified a template:
 
Links removed as it sends traffic to another site.

Hope it helps and give a direction so you to can build your portfolio and get more work.

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  • 2 months later...
Guest KarenSara

I have used FrontPage in the past and Photoshop.

I just wanted to add that there are many people who have posted full tutorials start to finish on how to set up websites with a variety of programs and how to tweak them on youtube.

So if there is a program you are interested in learning take a look there for someone demonstrating the basics of how to use and modify it.

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  • 9 months later...

I have been developing software for ten years and blacksmithing for about the same amount of time. When it came time to get a website up and running, I did what every good blacksmith has been doing for thousands of years I bartered for it. Swapped a couple hooks, repair to saddle stand and a promise of future work. I don't mind coding, it pays the bills but I would rather be out in the shop. a cheap web developer is a dime a dozen and can do a better job. shop around you might find some one to trade

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  • 4 months later...

Yeah I agree, it is a matter of preference, the web is by nature a loosely typed beast and very forgiving of badly typed code, be it html or css or most of the scripting languages.

There is absolutely no reason why you cant code in one of the older html specs, for most applications if not all, it will work just as well as anything scripted in the latest spec.

I just wanted to suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of learning something new, then why learn a standard that will be deprecated in relatively short space of time?

You might as well learn the latest coding standards, methodology etc etc, not so?

 

Except it won't be a relatively short space of time, and the old stuff isn't magically obsolete. Firefox and Chrome users will be fine as they get automatically updated, but IE users will get left behind as the spec changes. IE8 is still widely used, which would be very bad to code html5 for. Also, most of the stuff html5 adds would be useless to anybody trying to implement a simple storefront. Html5 is relevant, but only to developers who want to make sure they stay relevant in the future or who are doing something where IE doesn't matter.

 

I would caution anyone against using FrontPage, Dreamweaver, or any other WYSIWYG programs. They may be easy to use, but they generate horrible code. If you ever get to the point that you want to hire a developer to add any features to your site, the abominations these programs call code being there will drive up costs a good bit. I wouldn't say don't use these programs, as I can't think of any good alternatives if you don't have the time to learn some proper html/css yourself, but just something to be wary of.

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  • 3 weeks later...

well if you are reading this topic and really have no idea what to do for a website and are discourage when you see the word "code," look into wordpress. Its a "blog setup" but there are templates that you can use and make a nice presentation --as there are for many other types of sites. When you hear blog you probably thing online journal. Which it can be very easily. It also can be setup like a portfolio that helps get the point across to your clients. In the end you work does the talking and with minimal knowledge about code, wordpress is pretty appealing. With that said, if you can use Microsoft Word, you can use wordpress.

Knowing how to edit and create code is always a plus. Though in 2011 is not always necessary. Again I am talking to those whom are looking into a website with the budget and skills they have available. I understand what that is like. I watched my dads website get built and, in my opinion, was distractingly tacky and made the branding of the business a chore when I took over.

Here are some examples of wordpress sites that I did / modified a template:

Hope it helps and give a direction so you to can build your portfolio and get more work.

 
Our website is a modified Word Press template, I'm pretty satisfied with how it's turned out and the ease of working with it.  
 
We still have some work to do, but it's moving in the right direction and should hopefully serve us well.
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  • 2 months later...

I've always done everything by hand in notepad. You can learn how for free at w3schools.com. Once you learn the basics it's pretty easy and you can come out with a much nicer-looking and better made site.

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