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heat treating and forging jackhammer bits


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I was at the rental yard today and got to talking with the owner. I asked what he does with the bits and he said he just throws them away, so i offered to sharpen and harden them, i figured it may be a bit of extra cash for my hobby! Anyone have experience with this process. I have a general idea, i was gonna bring em up to non-magnetic and quench in oil, and temper to straw, or maybe blue? I'm not sure the exact steel type, and neither is the rental yard owner, i am gonna do a few for him so he can see how they work, and he said he will give me a bunch of stuff to work on. This will be good for me to make a little extra cash for tools.
Thanks Brian

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This work can be quite a cash cow if you get it right, we got our rental guy to loan us some new ones so we could copy the shape till we got it right. Then do a quick spark test to see if they apear similar. Then it just becomes practice.

And of course then visiting all the local rental shops! :)
Once you 'have it off pat' you will be surprised how quickly you can do 10, we had it at one point that one chap could deliver & collect Mondays forge Tuesdays grind & clean wednesday morning & then do other work for the rest of the week.The Bits covered his full cost to the shop and the clients thought in took him longer.

The first guy that we sharpened bits for I did them and delivered within 48 hours(a mistake) rental guys see value in time not work done(nature of their buisness I suppose) so his percieved value was always low. :( If you have a sand blast gun(we get cheapies for $20) a quick blow over when you are done gives them a "professional" look.

Good luck

Ian

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The timeing of this thread is a bit ironic. I got a call from a rental yard yesterday for the same thing. The place where he got his sharpen in Phoenix has gone out of buisness. I am going to see him this morning.

I talked to a friend about this and he new of someone who made a die for the hydraulic press that would shear off the bad end and press the new shape in one move. I will let you know how I make out on this one.

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Ironstein, Went down today to the rental yard and pick up 2 bits to try out and show them what I can do. I have a friend with a machine shop and I am going there tommorrow to make a bottom die out of 4140 with a 30 degree bevel on it for my power hammer.

I talked to a couple of other friends today who have done this work they both confirmed what I thought. Quench in oil at non magnetic. They do not even bother to draw back the temper and have had a no problems. Anyone else what to jump in with a opinion on this?

I also did a file test on the two bits one was glass hard and the other was softer. Spark test comfirmed that also.

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This work can be quite a cash cow if you get it right, we got our rental guy to loan us some new ones so we could copy the shape till we got it right. Then do a quick spark test to see if they apear similar. Then it just becomes practice.
Ian




I also did a file test on the two bits one was glass hard and the other was softer. Spark test comfirmed that also.


What are you guys talking about with the spark test? Spark test can only tell you carbon content or alloy, not hardness or anything else.
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What are you guys talking about with the spark test? Spark test can only tell you carbon content or alloy, not hardness or anything else.



Maybe I need to be straighten out here. If you have more carbon in a piece of steel won't it be harder when you temper it? If a spark test shows more carbon and and a file test says it is harder. Help me please understand what I have backwards.
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is liability.

You may be opening yourself up to a lawsuit if someone gets hurt with a point you sharpened.

Might be worth talking to a lawyer.

Bob


I would not do sharpening without the proper liability insurance. When it happens, they sue everyone who ever touched the bit, the rental yard, the hammer manufacturer, the bit manufacturer and the blacksmith. All the big boys gang up and say it must have been the blacksmith's fault! They usually end up settling with the rental yard's insurance and he goes after the blacksmith.
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Maybe I need to be straighten out here. If you have more carbon in a piece of steel won't it be harder when you temper it? If a spark test shows more carbon and and a file test says it is harder. Help me please understand what I have backwards.


I see. Was the other bit from a different manufacturer then?
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is liability.

You may be opening yourself up to a lawsuit if someone gets hurt with a point you sharpened.

Might be worth talking to a lawyer.

Bob


Bob S, Thanks for the advise. I checked my liability insurance and it looks like I am covered. I will make a couple of more calls to be sure.

One thing about any business, as soon as you hang out your shingle and it falls on someones head your asking for a law suit.
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Thanks guys. This thread and the one on NWBA are full of good info. I have the bits forged and a few finish ground, but my motor went out on my belt grinder. I will finish the five bits i have forged, and give them back to the guy, but i'm not charging him. Seeing that i am not an actual business, i want nothing to do with liability for these bits. Thanks for all the great info.
Brian

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Thanks guys. This thread and the one on NWBA are full of good info. I have the bits forged and a few finish ground, but my motor went out on my belt grinder. I will finish the five bits i have forged, and give them back to the guy, but i'm not charging him. Seeing that i am not an actual business, i want nothing to do with liability for these bits. Thanks for all the great info.
Brian



Too late for that since you have done the work. Doesn't matter if you have a business license or not at that point. If it goes kabluey, they will be calling you. the one who did the work. CYA at all times in today's lawyer rich environment.
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By the way i would love to see pictures of the die you have made for your hammer. Neil over at NWBA site talked a bit about a hydraulic scissor die that i am interested in seeing, it pinches off the end while forging the chisel.


I will post a picture as soon as I finish it. We machined most of it yesterday, ran into a small problem. I should have it done this weekend. I am headed to PHX today. The blacksmith and his son who has been doing this for many years is selling his eguipment and an going to meet him today to see what he has.
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Yes biggun, i did do the work, but i told the guy before he gave them to me that i wasn't sure of the type of steel and that he could test a few out to see how they work. He was informed that the possibility exists that they may break. I'm sure he could still come after me, but i am keeping my side of the street clean.

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I went to visit the blacksmith who is selling some of his shop and he has these Little Giant Hammers with Kinyon conversions done by Ron Kinyon.

100lb $1500

2- 50lb $1300

If any one is interested PM me and I can give you more information.

post-6037-0-03318400-1295880994_thumb.jp

post-6037-0-85644300-1295881002_thumb.jp

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