billp Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 As I also belong to a small town theater group I am trying to make brackets to hang some black curtains from. I started off with 2 - 1 1/2" wide strips 1/4" thick and 6" long. I then take 2 of these pieces and weld them together to make a 3" x 6" bracket. Will after all the welding and then grinding down to smooth out the weld I got the metal to hot and now to hard to drill through as I need at least 8 holes in each bracket. I tried to heat the brackets up to a red almost light orange color then let them air cool but still no luck. So I need to know just what I can do if any thing to soften the metal so I can drill them out. Any ideas please let me know, Thanks bill p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Try heating it up and bury it in ashes or powdered lime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Ashes, dry sand, lime, vermiculate, or you could just leave them in the forge and let it all cool overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 I have a piece of truck spring that is 8x3x1 at its thickest point I heat it up to red heat, at the same time as my project and I lock both of them in my gasser overnight. this seems tp dp the trick. The trick to annealing steel is to get the heat to dissipate as slowly as possible. While this is a generealised idea of it, it works for my projects so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 What were you starting with? If it was just flat bar from the steel supply I'd be looking at my drill. Is the bit sharp? What RPM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Do you have good drill bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Not answering your question, but why don't you heat em up and punch them hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 If normal annealing methods dont work well enough for you, read this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billp Posted December 17, 2010 Author Share Posted December 17, 2010 What were you starting with? If it was just flat bar from the steel supply I'd be looking at my drill. Is the bit sharp? What RPM? NO, my drill bits are fine and the stock I'm using is a common steel stock you can pick up at the hardware store. I have used it many times and it drills fine no matter the thickness. I have had this problem before but it was in the summer time and my methods worked then. I think after reading the suggestions you all posted thsat my problem is that the cold weather we are having now is cooling my metal to fast. So I'll just leave the pieces in my coal forge to cool slower after I finish and see if that works. I just think I got it to hot with all the welding and grinding not letting it cool between processes. My bad, after all I'm still learning. but if all else fails I try what has been suggested or by new stock drill first the put together. Thanks all for your help. billp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Air hardening mild steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 To make steel soft you get it real hot.... when its orange I think you'll find it much softer than when its black did you dunk it in water after welding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 As I also belong to a small town theater group I am trying to make brackets to hang some black curtains from. I started off with 2 - 1 1/2" wide strips 1/4" thick and 6" long. I then take 2 of these pieces and weld them together to make a 3" x 6" bracket. Will after all the welding and then grinding down to smooth out the weld I got the metal to hot and now to hard to drill through as I need at least 8 holes in each bracket. I tried to heat the brackets up to a red almost light orange color then let them air cool but still no luck. So I need to know just what I can do if any thing to soften the metal so I can drill them out. Any ideas please let me know, Thanks bill p You might look at this article. http://www.spaco.org/hrvscr.htm Don't know if you started with hot rolled (probably A36) or cold rolled (probably 1018), but the specs on A36 allow almost twice the carbon and some of that stuff can get really hard. It can be annealed but needs more care. As a farrier, I've bought some boxes of horseshoes that had to be worked hot (easy enough) or carefully annealed before working cold. A while back I was making a forged door pull, just grabbed a likely cross section from the scrap bin and, made it, quenched it and trashed a drill bit trying to drill it. Wood ash cooling was all it needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted December 18, 2010 Share Posted December 18, 2010 Every once and a wile you will get some A36 "mild steel" that will air harden. It has messed me up a few times. Luckily it doesn't happen too often. You can punch the holes hot. you can anneal the steel in wood ash or vermiculite. Also you could drill it with a carbide bit or perhaps some sort of cobalt bit with a special coating for hard steels, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billp Posted December 19, 2010 Author Share Posted December 19, 2010 To answer one question first no I never dunk my pieces in water after welding. But I did start grinding down the welds to smooth out the piece before letting it cool after welding. As a rule I don't dunk anything I make unless I'm trying to harden it for a tool then I use old motor oil. I don't fully understand about harding or conditioning of metal only bits and pieces as I am still learning as I go. After I responded back the first time I went out got my pieces to almost light orange hot then set to one side inside the hood of my coal forge. When I finished the last piece I cut my air off put the coldest piece on the bottom then stacked them on the still hot coals and covered with coal dust (I don't have any sand) and let them sit over night. But all the pieces were still hard when I checked then the next day. So I just bought new steel drilled them out first and will now weld them together. But I did discover that they were still a bit hard to drill as I had to use a new bit to start and it almost did not make it through the last piece as there were 12 pieces total with 4 holes each a total of 48 holes. So I guess the steel was just a bit harder then I though it would be or being 1/4" thick added to the problem. Again thanks to all for sharing your thoughts you are all a really big help to me when I need it. I am really glad this sight was started thanks again. billp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON FIST RICH Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 just a thought but maybe the drill bit is getting dull after that many holes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 If you don't have sand to put the parts in to cool try a metal container full of coal ash You must have some of that. Or you can nest the parts closely together as they cool off in air that works for me some times as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 What device are you using to drill with? drill press, hand drill motor, handrill, post drill? Sounds like something is wrong with your drilling process more than the steel being too hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billp Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 What device are you using to drill with? drill press, hand drill motor, handrill, post drill? Sounds like something is wrong with your drilling process more than the steel being too hard. I'm using a drill press with the same settings I have always used for all my metel drilling. No to they all started off fine just thick metel so after 48 holes, to answer another question, yes I do think the dit got a little dull. The pieces that got to hard I just gave up on for now and made new ones. But I will keep them and play around with them just to learn what to do the next time as I got a lot of ideas from this, just not enough time to try them all. Thanks again folks for all you help billp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 A similar thing happened to me. I built a hanger for my upper cabinets when I did my kitchen reno. I wasn't at my shop so I used my hand drill to drill the 7/16" holes in 1/4" plate. Well, the drill wandered a bit and ovalized the holes, so I migged the holes with 6013 flux core wire (no extra cooling, drilled in the summer when temps were quite warm), and tried to redrill the holes with a drill press in the same spots. I couldn't get those holes to drill, even with brand new HSS bits. I had to relocate the holes. Would it be normal for 6013 wire to behave like this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 A similar thing happened to me. I built a hanger for my upper cabinets when I did my kitchen reno. I wasn't at my shop so I used my hand drill to drill the 7/16" holes in 1/4" plate. Well, the drill wandered a bit and ovalized the holes, so I migged the holes with 6013 flux core wire (no extra cooling, drilled in the summer when temps were quite warm), and tried to redrill the holes with a drill press in the same spots. I couldn't get those holes to drill, even with brand new HSS bits. I had to relocate the holes. Would it be normal for 6013 wire to behave like this? In my opinion no. Sounds like carbon migration, combined with the base metal have too much carbon to be considered "mild steel". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 In my opinion no. Sounds like carbon migration, combined with the base metal have too much carbon to be considered "mild steel". The base metal was from my structural steel supplier. Although I didn't have any documentation on the steel, it was drops from one of their structural production jobs (so I will assume A36). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 One thing a lot of people forget is that in many cases you can auto-quench something---ie the part can be hot in one area and cold in another and so remove heat from the hot area fast enough to quench it without any other quenchant being used. Also I warm my knifemaking students that a postvise can quench a blade that's squeezed in it---or a steel benchtop for that matter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Thomas, I was thinking of the autoquenching of the surrounding steel as being a possibility. I realize that A36 has more of a performance spec than a constituent spec, but would A36 ever have enough carbon to quench and be too hard for new HSS bits at slower speeds in a drill press? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 "How do you make steel soft?" Dang. I got an answer to that, but Glenn wouldn't let it stand. He'd be mad at me for postin' it. A36 can have anything (ferrous) in it, and I've heard stories of people etching A36 and still being able to see the outline of old tools that were recycled to make that batch of steel. (I'm not saying it's common; I'm just saying it's something I've heard.) Seems not everything in the furnace was necessarily completely molten when that batch was poured. So who knows? You could be trying to drill an old chunk of HSS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 48 holes? I regularly get about 500 holes drilling as-forged 1045, 3/8" hole through 3/8 before I need to touch up the bit. Running 250 RPM with good pressure and coolant in a drill press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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