Freezing Propane Tanks. A Different Solution

[John McPherson]

Heck, I can freeze up a bottle in August in the south! With no shade!

You just need a plastic or metal tub a few inches wider than the tank. Propane tank does not need to float, in fact it should not. Filling it with a couple of gallons of cold tap water will work, does not need to be heated. Anything above 32F is fine.

Just dump the tub when you are done for the day. (Skeeters in the summer, ice splitting the tub in the winter.)

[Howling dog forge]

I guess if I was forging all day in all weather and doing it for a living I would build a closed loop heating system with a point or use water heater and and a fountain pump pumping glycol . A thermostat control for the pump would maintain the water temp in the bucket , just big enough for the fuel tank, at a consistent temp and as such the fuel pressure at a constant until the volume would no longer support it. But this would cost a couple hundred bucks so cost justification would be up to the individual. I suppose I am fortunate as not to have a dog in this fight and would, if faced with a tank incapable of delivering pressure, pursue indoor activities. For those with freezing slack tubs, maybe a horse troth heater? Has anyone considered plumbing heat tape?

[Marker Dylan]

I know i am a little late to this conversation but there are valid arguments on this subject. Being a heating technician and look at this problem from that point of view the solution to this problem is to either get a bigger tank are manifold multiple together. each tank has a surface area and is rated for a certain amount of BTU/H which is indeed affected by the temperature. i am attempting to include a table with more detail.

[Ted Ewert]

If mine starts to form ice, I just put a small fan blowing room air at it. That seems to be enough for my tank. However, since I've built more efficient versions of my forge, I find that my tank isn't icing anymore, even at forging temperatures. 

[BeaverNZ]

I have been using one of my LPG burners over the last few days to reduce the scale forming on blanks for rivets and my 45 Kg LPG bottle pressure kept on taking a dive, Without going to the trouble of running water over the bottle to try to maintain temp how do others deal with this problem. In the future I wish to run two of these burners (3/4 inch body) which are not big off two bottles in tandem which I though should cover the req drawoff, Has anyone tried a Vaporizer that you supply with liquid gas from the bottle which would remove the problem. This is done in large instalations but what about smaller scale?

[Mikey98118]

There is a permanent thread on freezing propane tanks; about seven pages worth.

[BeaverNZ]

Yes there is sorry though i did the google search using Iforgeiron etc, Guess I didnt see the obivous and I put it down to industrail blindness thats my story and im sticking to it LOL Cheers

[BeaverNZ]

Well I went and got a cup of tea and some buscuits and read the pinned post and I still havent got an answer to my question as I really need to have my bottles outside if I have more than one, I wish there was the big propane tanks here like I saw in Merica while I was there years ago but they dont seem to be available here and I dont wish to have a giant bank of bottles if I can avoid it. i have done most of the heating tricks that were talked about well the less dodgy ones. cheers Beaver

[ThomasPowers]

Not being up on the rules and regs in NZ; I have to ask: What did your propane supplier suggest?

[BeaverNZ]

I have been talking to one of the gas suppliers and he is looking into a vaporizer for me, if i have more than 100Kg onsite i have have a permit at a couple of hundred dollars a year, between bottle rentals and permits this must be a racket run my some under world outfit. The bottle rental thing is something that if i think about it too much i start talking through clenched teeth and muttering swear words that cant be repeated in gentle company like this.

[ThomasPowers]

Much less regulated here. I have a couple of 100# cylinders and around 5 of the BBQ size 20# ones.  We also have a tank for our house; just for the kitchen stove!  It's big enough that they come out and refill it.  (And my wife gave me the 100# tank we used to use for it when she switched over to the larger one---and it was FULL!)  Of course we live in the country and are under "farm" rules.

[Frozenforge]

K.I.S.S.

Large Kids play bucket filled with water,  place propane bottle in water, a weight on top to hold it down and keep upright. Not dangerous, not hazardous, inexpensive, no power required. Can run 2  3/4” burners on a 20lb bottle till it runs out and maintain 50 psi outlet pressure. If you want to keep mosquitos from breeding a little common dish soap in the water stops that.

[SLAG]

F. F.,

By dish soap I presume that you mean dish detergent and not regular soap.  (like ivory).

The latter will work by lowering the surface tension of the water surface, making it very difficult for the mosquito larvae to respire at the surface.

The larvae float bottom side up and respire from their hind ends.

If they sink they drown, and the reduced surface tension helps that happen.

SLAG.

[Frozenforge]

Yep, a few drops of liquid dish soap.

[Marc1]

Any soap will do, or you can use oil. 

By the way mosquitos do not "respire" they breathe. They do have a respiratory system, but ... synonyms do not always mean the same

[eriktlupus]

When I was brewing beer I would have the tanks freezing up while doing the boil on a banjo burner(sounds like a jet engine when running full bore). The solution for us was to take the spent grains (@140f) and bag em in a garbage bag and set the tank on the bag during the boil.

[Glenn]

Propane tanks freezing up usually means that you are drawing a larger volume of gas than the small tank is designed to release in a given time. A one off project is much different from a regular need for the quantity and volume of gas you require.  Always err on the safe side. 

Contact your gas dealer for their best advise. He wants you as a long time customer and wants to properly service your needs.

[VainEnd84]

Buying a daisy chain or manifold is an easy thing and can be sourced from most RV lots or LPG suppliers. Heck you can even make one with a little know how. 

Once you have one you can connect 2 20lb or 30lb tanks together, and essentially halve the draw from each tank while more than doubling the surface area of a tank twice the size.

[BeaverNZ]

Mosquitos must be in the same family as politians exept they talk through the same area as well

[RToons]

On 12/8/2010 at 4:05 PM, Glenn said:

Anything you do to squeeze more propane out of a tank faster than that size tank is designed to deliver, is questionably dangerous.

The correct answer is to consult the propane distributor and have them look at your set up and recommend a proper sized propane tank and distribution system. You will get better service to the forge, most likely a better price on the propane (due to buying in bulk) and the distributor takes the responsibility for the system.

I would think Frosty might have insight into this issue because he lives in Alaska, land of shivers! But to the issue: I use a 15lb propane tank because that is what exchange sites have. I live outside of Pittsburgh PA and I use a Mr Heater 15000 btu propane tank top heater. I put on med and 1/4 way up tank gets covered by frost after a few hours which bothers me! I have a single T-burner of Frosty design running at ~7psi in outside temp's ~17 to 34 degrees and have had no frost build up! A 15ib tank lasts ~5 hours of forging!  Propane tanks can freeze at -44 degrees which Frosty might experience but Not most of country. According to local propane company the frost on a tank is nothing to be concerned about and could reduce pressure at worst case but they suggest lowering the rate at which you are taking fuel from tank!

No insult to Frosty by using his tag name. He has helped me on several issues from building forge to correcting my mistakes to suggestions on holding a hammer to reduce hand/wrist issues.

[BillyBones]

2 hours ago, RToons said:

15lb propane tank because that is what exchange sites have.

If you have a Tractor Supply near you they fill tanks to 20#. They also charge by the gallon and not just a flat rate. So if your tank is 1/4 full you only pay for 3/4 of the tank. 

[Les L]

Rtoons, the frost on the tank is caused by the rate the LP(liquid Propane) is being converted from liquid to gas. Ambient temperature will have some effect, but the greatest effect is from rate of transfer, pulling gas out faster than it can change from liquid to gas, that is why it is recommended to go to a larger size bottle when you have frost/freezing problems on your bottle you have more space above the LP for it to turn to gas and prevent it from freezing. An example: a co-worker was telling me about a griddle he bought for camping trips, but every time he tried to use it the 20# LP (5gal) bottle froze up and it shut down. I explained what I just posted and he bought a 15gal bottle and has not had any problems since, plus the bottles last a lot longer before having to refill 

[ThomasPowers]

I'm too cheap to use the exchange places; I get a better price and a better fill at my local propane dealer and they give me free o-rings when I need them for a soft nose propane fittings. I saw the lawsuit about the exchange places selling tanks as full when they were all down a certain percentage, a nice scam!  Have they now just gone to advertising the real amount of propane in their tanks?

 

[Casting Timmy]

If you manifold 2 20lb tanks together to guard against freezing and one is fuller than the other, do they automatically equalized pressure between the two?  I assume since it's a liquid turning to gas they don't equalize the fill between the two bottles, just the pressure.

Has anyone noticed that you can use an empty tank as a as reservoir?  A local club member was telling me that people have discovered they can do this.  Anyone else have similar experiences?

[Mikey98118]

LPG fuels (Propylene, propane, butane, methane, and mixtures of them) lose very little pressure until they are near empty. So one answer to you question is; does not apply.