making copper cookware

[Aaron J. Cergol]

Hi all,

for some holiday gifts this year, I'm looking to make some quality copper cookware. pots, pans, spoons, egg mixing bowls...

so a few questions before I begin. first off, what is a good thickness? I'm thinking like 14 gauge for items in contact with heat (I know copper does not come in gauges though)and maybe like 3/16" for the other items, or will this be too thin? I know I'll have to anneal it a lot, and I might get lazy and work it hot (hot copper=working with butter...sooo nice.) most of these vessels will be raised, but some will be soldered as well.

Also, for the plain bowls and egg mixing bowl I will not finish the inside, but for pots and such, what do I finish the insides with? I know I need to heat it up and "line" them with Tin or the like, but I'm looking for a specific name here. also sources on where to buy said material would be fantastic.

Also anyone have a (cheap) source for copper? I know that cheap and copper do not go together, so I should ask for a *cheaper* source.

Thanks,

Aaron

[Fosterob]

14 guage sheet and 3/16 plate are two very different things. Are you planning on using both for different applications?
Rob

[Aaron J. Cergol]

Rob, yes two different things. I was thinking the 14 gauge for the pots/pans and things in contact with heat and the 3/16" for the other items. sorry, I wasn't too clear in my post above-now edited.)

will the 14 gauge be too thin for stove use? (i.e will warping be an issue?)

[Fosterob]

I would think 14 ga ok for pans if the bottom was not to large or flat. Is it going to be used on gas or electric? Gas has more forgiveness if the pan is not perfectly flat. I have some expensive SS pans and the bottom has a slight crown to it, so if set on a flat surface the center has an air gap so when heated they flatten out instead of oil-canning.
Rob

[Fosterob]

My parents have a copper tea pot that is pretty old and is holding up fine. About 6"or 7" across the bottom and made of thin 18-20 ga. I would guess.
Rob

[bigfootnampa]

As far as tinning pots... you want to use... tin. 100 percent tin. There have been some threads on this. Try searching for "tinning", several threads that have some useful info.

[Fe-Wood]

Thats a fairly open question. Depending how deep and how wide the bowls and pans are will determine the best thickness to start with. Another factor is the type of tools used for the raising. A good source for sheet copper is the scrap/recycler or fab shop. Most of that material will be 16 and 32oz. I have found 10g on occasion....

Got pictures?

[kburd]

hey bud you wanna try out Copper and Brass Sales by ThyssenKrupp. They are one of the largest if not the largest seller in the country of plate etc copper. The last quote I got was in September for a sheet 36" x 96" of 3/16 for $1486 dollars delivered. Thats 62 dollars a sq foot more or less. I looked and looked and could not find it cheaper or anything even close to a ft by ft square at a scrap yard. If you are close to a big city you might find a yard that has some but mostly you will just find drops of pipe etc. The number for this place is 1 800 926 2600 ask for copper sales. Oh and you want soft copper sheet c11000. I will warn you once you start using copper you cost are going to skyrocket and you will be constantly looking for ways to use up your little drops and what not. But working with heavy copper hot is just a ton of fun. Until you push you luck just a little to much and let it get a little to work hardened and crack the xxxxxxxx thing!!!!! good luck

[ThomasPowers]

Actually there is a gauge system for copper; it's a different one than the ferrous ones(s) though. Always go by mm or decimal inch though---avoids a lot of possible error modes!

When I was re-tinning some pots for as friend I used these folks---good prices and service!

http://www.rotometals.com

[fciron]

I get my copper at a roofing supply place. They don't stock the heavier stuff, but they can get it. Might be someplace like it near you, plus they have lots of other cools stuff. :P

[Aaron J. Cergol]

cool thanks for the help guys.

I'll try a copper roofing place. I work at hardware store/lumber yard and we sell *some* copper roofing supplies, but mostly sit on it. that being said, I bought a sheet of 20oz copper a 4'X8' for just over $70 bucks-this year. I paid 10% over cost (my discount) from when we bought it a few years ago. still have a whole lot of it too. bossman said he'd put a few sheets aside for me until I an pay them off.

Aaron

[fciron]

You're lucky you got to buy at the purchase price, not the market price. You may be in for a shock. :o

[Chuck Fraser]

Alaskan Copper& Brass-------- Portland, Or.

Atlas Metals-------Denver, Co.

[Chuck Fraser]

Alaskan Copper& Brass-------- Portland, Or.

Atlas Metals-------Denver, Co.

[Fe-Wood]

Aaron-
If you like working Copper, buy as much as you can from your work! That is a smoking deal! A little over a year ago, when copper prices were low, I bought several sheets of 3'x10'. The 16oz. was about $150.00 or so per sheet. :blink:

[ianinsa]

I'm not sure how it is stateside, but here in South Africea,England and in the middle east a lot of old geysers(low pressure)(buy from scrapdealers) have copper liners these make good stock for copper dishes pots etc. You just have to remove the limescale(vinegar + water)and don't use old joints(lead contamination) on food utensils.
Ian

[fciron]

You better define old geezer a little better before some one starts chasing Grant around for his copper.

I believe this is what we yanks call a hot water heater. The ones I've dissected have steel tanks with an enamel lining.

[ianinsa]

You better define old geezer a little better before some one starts chasing Grant around for his copper.

I believe this is what we yanks call a hot water heater. The ones I've dissected have steel tanks with an enamel lining.

Gold in his teeth too

Ok! our 'hot water heaters' are also done that way now but earlier models 70's and before were copper espesially low preasure and they lasted really well so we still see them in junkyards quite often!
Ian

[fciron]

I quit messing with water heaters after the first one. (I'm the only one I know with an enamel lined BBQ!) Is there a way to tell a copper tank with out removing the shell and nasty insulation?

[kpotter]

I have made some copper cookwear I used 1/4 inch for the frying pan I got the sheet when copper was 1 dollar a pound. I would love to find some some more but at 4 dollars a pound it is not happening. The stuff that they sell in Williams Sonoma and in France is 1/4 inch thick and they get 1500 bucks for a frying pan. I am surprised that there are no US makers of high end copper cook wear, but I think the market is small.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

$4 a pound is cheap. Our bar stock is running around $10 a pound now.

Besides price there has been some talk about copper not really being that good for cookware, and culinary water plumbing. There has been some discussions on this subject here before. A lot of copper alloys have some lead in them, and I believe they can only be used with nonreactive foods. No citrus, or other acidic foods. For most folks plain ol cast iron, or stainless is fine. Copper does have that bling factor though.

[Fe-Wood]

$4 a pound is cheap. Our bar stock is running around $10 a pound now.

What IS this world commomg too $10 per pound....sheesh!

Besides price there has been some talk about copper not really being that good for cookware, and culinary water plumbing. There has been some discussions on this subject here before. A lot of copper alloys have some lead in them, and I believe they can only be used with nonreactive foods. No citrus, or other acidic foods. For most folks plain ol cast iron, or stainless is fine. Copper does have that bling factor though.

here is an article I think is worth reading
http://www.copperinfo.co.uk/antimicrobial/homepage.shtml

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Yea, our materials have to have certifications, can only come from certain countries to be DEFARS (sp?) compliant (we get a lot of Swiss made copper bars), and a host of paperwork drives the price up.

I knew about the antimicrobial aspect. We had large copper kettles at the Jelly Belly Candy Co. , Coors has the largest copper brewing kettles in the world, one of my customers had a brandy still that was hand hammered copper. It may come down to the alloy being lead free to meet NSA,FDA,USDA, etc codes. Who knows what is in the old equipment.

I have some 7/8" diameter Tellurium Copper bars that I would like to forge out a wine type glass from. Just don't know how the exposed copper would effect the taste-I am not a wine drinker, it is for a friend. Tinning, or some other plating may be called for.

[Fe-Wood]

Yea, our materials have to have certifications, can only come from certain countries to be DEFARS (sp?) compliant (we get a lot of Swiss made copper bars), and a host of paperwork drives the price up.

I knew about the antimicrobial aspect. We had large copper kettles at the Jelly Belly Candy Co. , Coors has the largest copper brewing kettles in the world, one of my customers had a brandy still that was hand hammered copper. It may come down to the alloy being lead free to meet NSA,FDA,USDA, etc codes. Who knows what is in the old equipment.

I have some 7/8" diameter Tellurium Copper bars that I would like to forge out a wine type glass from. Just don't know how the exposed copper would effect the taste-I am not a wine drinker, it is for a friend. Tinning, or some other plating may be called for.

Got pictures of the still or kettles?

Oh yes tinning for sure- inside and along the rim outside, where ones lips touch. Red Wine will not like the copper a bit. Not sure about whites... Another nicety Cali is inflickting on the world- Lead free Copper AND Brass for ANY household items. Think water valves and appliance guts....

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I don't have a picture of the Coors kettle handy-it was on film, and who knows where the pictures are since the move There may be a picture online of it, or maybe even Coors website. I went through the brewery quite a few years ago.

I didn't get a picture of the still. It was around 8' tall, and a couple of feet in diameter as I remember. Don flew to Germany to watch them being made. He mentioned that the workers were all deaf from the hammering noise. Tinnitus, I have also heard of it being called tinnermens ear because it was so common to sheetmetal workers (tin knockers). It really did look nice though with the hammer marks. More of a piece of art than industrial equipment. Then again most old equipment had some flair in its design, not so much today though.

The only things I miss from Kalifornia are the trees, and the fresh produce.