ianinsa Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Hi All, I'm thanking you in advance(in antisipation) for help. One of my mates would lide to have a bash at making up some real stained glass panels for his farm's chapel! This is to replace some windows that were damaged and replaced with tiffany style 'leaded' windows. I have managerd to source him glass from a mate of mine in Kuwait. The lead came(sort of 'H' section) is where the difficulty comes in. He does'nt want hobby shop strips as this chapel is on his Olive farm in Bloemfontien and could date back to the Anglo-Boer war. Last year when I was in Kings Chapel in Cambridge I saw a tool/machine to roll came in a display case. This case is in the vestibule(sanctuary) to the left of the entrance at the rear of the church. I remember looking at it with great interest as I'm facinated by tools and machinery. At the time I did not think that I would have need nor use for this, I neglected to take notes and photos. I have thought of asking my mother who lives just outside of London to take a trip there, and photograph the item for me, sadly I'm afraid that what I need to copy the tool might be lost on her and I will end up frustrated/dissapointed and she might then deem me an ungrateful so and so(wich is not the case). So in conclusion if anyone has info/a tool/a drawing or lives close to Camebridge and could help I would be most gratefull. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 Well I don't live near Cambridge and I don't have pictures of the tools you're talking about BUT if your friend decides to go with professionally made caming I know a casting house in my city that makes all the types of lead caming needed for stained glass - I'm sure they ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 6, 2010 Share Posted November 6, 2010 found this http://en.allexperts.com/q/Stained-Glass-2350/2009/3/Lead-Cames.htm Good luck. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Sam, Thanks on that, The honest truth is that after thinking about it I would really like to make/copy the machine firstly it would probably be fun(I get a kick out of producing a 'new' machine) and secondly I need work for my team. We are doing our damdest to find work for the shop. I thought that if I make 'good stuff' I could aproach local hobby shops with a viable alternative to imported came. I'd make my mates came at virtual cost and try to make a modest profit on the rest. Phil, I had thought of casting, as we would be casting the 'strip stock' however I thought casting small H sections 1meter long without centrifugal casting kit might just be a mission! Thanks for the input so far. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Lead casts nicely, especially if you pour "hot". Pouring hot creates more lead fumes than pouring at just melted will. Take percautions with ventilation and such please. Growing up I cast all kinds of fishing tackle with my Dad and brothers. Sooting the metal molds was key to getting detail and easy parting (we used a candle). We also made some simple open face molds in a carbon brick (a brush from a rail road engine I was told). Most of the fishing tackle we cast was in the 1/2 oz (about 15 gram) ball park, The largest were 1 1/2 oz I never used wood molds. I wonder how cold roll steel bolted together would work as a mold instead of wood? A full length sprue can easily be removed with a wood chisel since lead is so soft. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Hi Phil, Thanks once again for the reply . I had responded butit seemed to get swallowed up in the ether! We have done lote of lead casting, the largest of wich was old world style lead planter pots 150kg/each for a hotel in Zambia on the banks of the Zambezi river(they were stolen and sold for scrap within the first week) I cast aluminium slabs and mill out shapes as moulds. it works really well for things like fishing sinkers etc. I also cast S7 solder in thin bars for some radiator guys and we also use those thin solder sticks when doing copper rooves. However I am dubious about casting a 1meter long H profile 5mm in size. I'm still keen to make up a tool to fit on a jenny to 'roll' a 5mm rod into a came, I recon it's doable any i'm just trying to copy/knock off a proven/working design rether than reinvent the wheel, I've also thought about extruding it, but ............................I know from nuttin about that! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 All of my sinker molds are aluminum. I have molds up to 2#. Lead can also be cast into silicone molds. There are various companies that sell silicone molds for lead soldiers. Learn something new every day. I didn't know hat they were called cames. Another method of leading glass is to wrap the edge with thin copper foil then soldering together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 Another method of leading glass is to wrap the edge with thin copper foil then soldering together. This is what is refered to as Tiffany style! I had forgotten about the silicone. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Falzone Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 I'm still keen to make up a tool to fit on a jenny to 'roll' a 5mm rod into a came, I recon it's doable any i'm just trying to copy/knock off a proven/working design rether than reinvent the wheel, I've also thought about extruding it, but ............................I know from nuttin about that! Ian I'm curious ... does lead work-harden? Following all the posts I couldn't help myself but try to come up with my own version of the "came rolling machine". Kinda' cool. I'm envioning a warming tunnel to soften the wire (probably warmed with a simple propane torch heating the outside of a copper pipe tunnel. Then the wire is fed into two knurled wheels to form the channel. But that's just my freaky imagination - much better to copy a proven design, like you said. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Steinkirchner Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 i dont believe lead work hardens appreciably, ive hammered blocks into flat plates to test chisels and fullers on. and when i was younger i found a few old wheel weights and smashed them flat with a claw hammer on a big rock. didnt know they were lead back then but i too looked into making lead came about a year ago and realised it would be easier to make them in about 20 inch sections because i could cast them that way and could weld them together end to end with soldering iron for longer pieces. but for the "C" shaped came an open faced mold would work, as long as it is level. dont know about rolling it though Ed Steinkirchner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Sam, Lead stays 'soft' for the most part, as we use 'scrap' lead you sometimes get impurities from solder etc. wich make it a bit firmer but very little effect. Sometimes age(years) seems to make it 'cristaline',Hence no need to pre-heat. The machine that I saw used the knurled wheels. You know great minds think alike.....and fools do'nt seem to differ. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Wheel weights aren't pure lead. I used to do a lot of bullet casting for my handguns in my youth and wheel weights were ideal for them because of the antimony that was in them. It made the lead harder and less likely to foul the bores of the pistols. Now this alloy does work harden having cast it into sheets to work as a backing for some other metal work it will crack after repeated blows. The pure lead ingots that you buy from a plumbers shop for doing lead and oakum joints in waste pipe will not work harden. They just swage out nicely to make a tight fit in the joint after being poured in. It is also not the best lead to use in your handgun because it fouls the bore so bad, it gets caught in the rifling. Most of the cames used in glass work are actually extruded now, not cast or rolled out of sheet. Years ago a fellow in the studio behind mine worked in glass and did big panels for churches and I don't remember him ever using any copper foil in his windows, sun catchers, yes, but in the windows it was all lead. I welded up some steel supports for some of the bigger panels. I got his scrap lead for bullet casting, they were great for cap and ball revolvers. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I was in the shop in Pretoria today that sells lead came for stained glass windows and they import it as already formed. I did ask if they got something to make your own came but got a funny look. On the other hand I did make a window with lead a long time ago and I distinctly remember something in an old book on how to roll your own lead so it must be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 I was in the shop in Pretoria today that sells lead came for stained glass windows and they import it as already formed. I did ask if they got something to make your own came but got a funny look. On the other hand I did make a window with lead a long time ago and I distinctly remember something in an old book on how to roll your own lead so it must be possible. Hi Jacques, It's nice to see another Se'frican active on this site. I've also seen the imported stuff in Garsfontien and Centurion. The price seemed steep so thats why I thought that there would be a market for a local product. I'd be very interested if you found that book! I'm busy with the long slow process of moving my shop to Durban, but my place in Kyalami still has more than 70 machines in it, so if you are interested maybe you might like to pop round for a beer when I'm next up there, I've always thought stealing with your eyes is a great passtime. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjenki Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 This is all I have, took these 4 pics in museums when I was in Europe last year. Didn't know what it was until i found the sample in the science museum in Munich when there was a sign. Hope this helps! Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 Thanks Matt, That helps a great deal, it is the mental refresher that I needed. Your photos are very similar to what I saw! And so off to work we go. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted November 17, 2010 Share Posted November 17, 2010 Anyone else read the discription? "Is used to convert preformed H came for bullseye windows". It is not a came maker. Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted November 22, 2010 Share Posted November 22, 2010 Yeah, I read that. It looks like it takes a cast "H" section of came and draws it out to a thinner section. As you progressively adjust the sides in the toothed wheels move the came along as you crank the gears. This is the way it was done before hydraulic powered extruders. It must have taken a good long while to cast and then roll out enough came to make a rose window. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilegr8 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 On 06/11/2010 at 3:52 PM, ianinsa said: Hi All, I'm thanking you in advance(in antisipation) for help. One of my mates would lide to have a bash at making up some real stained glass panels for his farm's chapel! This is to replace some windows that were damaged and replaced with tiffany style 'leaded' windows. I have managerd to source him glass from a mate of mine in Kuwait. The lead came(sort of 'H' section) is where the difficulty comes in. He does'nt want hobby shop strips as this chapel is on his Olive farm in Bloemfontien and could date back to the Anglo-Boer war. Last year when I was in Kings Chapel in Cambridge I saw a tool/machine to roll came in a display case. This case is in the vestibule(sanctuary) to the left of the entrance at the rear of the church. I remember looking at it with great interest as I'm facinated by tools and machinery. At the time I did not think that I would have need nor use for this, I neglected to take notes and photos. I have thought of asking my mother who lives just outside of London to take a trip there, and photograph the item for me, sadly I'm afraid that what I need to copy the tool might be lost on her and I will end up frustrated/dissapointed and she might then deem me an ungrateful so and so(wich is not the case). So in conclusion if anyone has info/a tool/a drawing or lives close to Camebridge and could help I would be most gratefull. Ian hiya - old topic but just wondering if you managed to build the extruder or or whatever is called : ) ?! I do stained glass as a hobby and the cames cost a lot here in the uk I thought it would be fantastic if I could make my own in the garage . Here is a DIY extruder ?! made by a guy in ukraine but can't really understand how it works .. i ll be grateful if you can help regards Iurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 I dont know the cost but I know the lead can be bought from a glazing company near me, and I am not far from cambridge, I will get you contact details soon. yes they do the proper H section, dont know if there are different thicknesses ( they also sell the stick on hobbyist stuff ) I make machines and could have a look but that is a 100 miles round trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilegr8 Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 On 20/02/2016 at 9:14 PM, the iron dwarf said: I dont know the cost but I know the lead can be bought from a glazing company near me, and I am not far from cambridge, I will get you contact details soon. yes they do the proper H section, dont know if there are different thicknesses ( they also sell the stick on hobbyist stuff ) I make machines and could have a look but that is a 100 miles round trip hi thx yes if you can find their contact detail that wd be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share Posted February 23, 2016 This is quite an old thread and to be honest I'd forgotten about it. I had meant to make an extruder, like for fun , I think I need to revisit the idea! Has anyone been to Cambridge and taken a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 I have an old school friend who works in the Library of Trinity College, I will drop him an email and see if he can photograph the machine for you. Can you give me any clues as to where it is in the Chapel? And maybe a rough description so he will know what to be looking for. From my memory banks regarding the work hardening of lead...yes it does. But it also anneals at room temperature so heat is not required...just a bit of time maybe, depending on the thickness and degree of stress. You can break it by continually bending it back and forth. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 from first post "Last year when I was in Kings Chapel in Cambridge I saw a tool/machine to roll came in a display case. This case is in the vestibule(sanctuary) to the left of the entrance at the rear of the church." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 TA! That bit wasn't in my memory banks! They say it is the short term memory that goes first... Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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