FieryFurnace Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Ok, so I'm on a "get the shop done yesterday" streak and I need your opinions. I'm building the shop forge with the Hofi style hood. (Is there like a copyright on that thing where I have to pay Hofi money to use it???) The outside dimensions of the forge are 30 inches wide by 36 inches long. The hofi hood is drawn on. It will be 14 inches wide and sits on the forge for eight inches. The firepot is 12 inches by 14 inches and is also drawn on and labeled. My question is, will this work as drawn? It is the size of the forges at JCC folk school. The fire pot is based off the dimensions given for Centaur Forge fire pots. I just want to know this is a good basic lay out before I start eating 4" cutting disks for breakfast! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 No Dave, I'm afraid there's not a chance that'll work "as drawn." Seriously, you'll have to actually build it. My coal forge is 36" x 48 and needs a side draft hood but I don't normally use coal. It's a really nice size though, plenty of room to lay iron, stash breeze and lay the odd tool I want to keep handy. The main difference though is the rim I put around mine and the tong/hammer racks I made that clip over it. The racks let me hang tongs, hammers and whatever else in a handy place that's generally out of my way. What you have laid out should work just fine and Uri has offered his side draft forge hood without stipulation, so go ahead and make a version. If he gives you any trouble tell him I said it's okay. Not that THAT will do any good of course. Seriously don't worry, it will make Uri proud you're using his ideas. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Dave - You've used a few forges by now, if you were asked what would you change on those forges - what would you change? - make those changes to your new one and then you'll have one that fits your needs. Make it so you like it and so you want to use it often. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Gotta luv the sarcasim! LOL I am planning on putting a tong/tool rack on the end of the forge. There is also going to be a slide out "blacksmith's helper" under the forge. I may draw it out to your size Frosty, and see if I like the way it looks over the smaller one. I'm finishing up a tool rack that is going to mount to the wall of my shop. After that I may get to start on the forge tomorrow afternoon. Don't know though! We are going to try to jack up the 6x6 posts that hold up our barn so that we can cut them off and pour concrete footers under them to replace the creek rock that was the original foundation......y'all pray that nothing collapses! If I don't post tomorrow y'all come dig me out of the rubble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 We are going to try to jack up the 6x6 posts that hold up our barn so that we can cut them off and pour concrete footers under them to replace the creek rock that was the original foundation......y'all pray that nothing collapses! If I don't post tomorrow y'all come dig me out of the rubble! Be safe. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Dave, forge up a pick and shovel to keep with you before you start working on the barn. Keep us posted on how the new forge is coming along. And post more pix of WIP. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Well, I'm gonna draw her out bigger, see what I like, and start the 4" cutting disk feast! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Hey Dave, One option to cutting wheels is to use a cold chisel to cut the sheetmetal. It looks to be 1/8" thick or so, once you get a cut going with a cold chisel it all goes pretty quick. The chisel will leave somewhat sharp edge that will need to be cleaned up with a grinder or file. Personaly I have found that I can cut sheet metal as quick or quicker with a chisel then with a cutoff wheel or a sawzall, the big upside is that you don't have to buy all of those blades and grinding wheels! Another thing to think about is that chisels are a lot safer to operate then very rapidly spinning grinding wheels. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 That's an interesting idea about the chisel. I've got a whole box of chisels and punces but don't know what they are as far as cold or hot work goes. May try one or two out though. I think I have settled on a nearly square forge.....something like 35"x36." I would do a perfect square but I have to use the metal I drop for my hood. If I do a full 36" wide I'll only have 13" left which isn't enough. So I'll cut off at about 35" and then use the 14" drop piece as part of my hood. I'll explain all the reasoning behind this and have some pictures of it all later! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Hey Dave, The easiest way to tell the use of a chisel is to look along the length of the cutting edge. The wider and thicker the edge is, such as the edge being close to a 90 degree angle, the more robust it is. Ones like that are made for cold work. Also the shorter and more chunky looking taper from the chisel shaft to the cutting edge is the better is it able to take hard hammer blows. Chisels made for fine work, soft metal or hot metal have a much longer taper from the shaft to the cutting edge and a much sharper edge so that the edge glides into and through the cut easier. A book with a lot of information on chisels is Haslucks "Metal Work" which includes almost all the forms of metal work that you can imagine. You can get it from Lindsay Publications, they also have his "Smiths Work" book which is basically just the blacksmithing section from the "Metal Work" book. I have his "Metal Work" book and although it was written 100 some years ago I have found a lot of usefull knowledge in it for sure! Cutting sheet metal with a chisel is almost a lost art and I believe that a lot of people would save a lot of time and money if they researched and developed that skill. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 14, 2010 Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 Well I'll sure add that to my "get that book" list. I kind of figured that col chisels would have a steeper profil. I have one really big one so I ground the edge anew and gave it a wirl. As you said, it must be a lost art 'cause I failed big time. The material is 3/16 plate so maybe that's too thick...I don't know! Including cutting out the 3/8" plate for the 12x14" firepot I think I used like eight disks. That's $15.00 and I could have got it all broke at the steel yard for that.....and in a lot less time. I've still got the stuff for the hood to get cut but I'll probably take it to the fab shop when I get my flue pipe cut. Pics later..........and no I didn't get buried in barn rubble.....everything went well.....that is until the dog stepped in the concrete! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Don't worry about what I built Dave, you use coal more in a month than I do in a couple years. Like Jeremy says, take into account all the changes you've made and what you'd like to change on your old forges. There're tricks to cutting with chisels, especially plate or sheet. If you put the plate in a vise on the mark and lay the chisel on the jaw. A horizontally struck blow will cause the chisel to shear the steel rather than try wedging it's way through. I know a vise isn't going to work with a largish sheet but you can shear it by hand by laying it over a reasonably heavy piece of steel with a sq edge. It can be a piece of SQ bar, a piece of reasonably thick strip stock buried on edge, say 1/2" x 4" or similar. Mark the cut lines and lay sheet on the bar with the marks ligned up with the bar. Now take the sharp chisel edge, lay it flat against the bar with the edge against the plate to be cut and give it a hearty whack with a heavy hammer. Try to visualize this like a pair of scissors. The bottom bar, plate or whatever is the bottom scissor blade. The chisel makes the top scissor blade and you'll want it coming down at close to a 45* angle into the plate you're cutting. I know this sounds complicated but once you get the hang of it, it's a LOT easier than trying to chisel through stock, even small rd or sq. Oh yeah, are you making your own fire pot? It'd be a good thing to try what I just described without having to hassle the heavy stuff. Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 I made substantial progress today. I don't have time to do much writing but here are some pictures! The firepot is ready for the clinker breaker and tuyere. The angle iron lip for the forge is cut out but still has to be welded. Then it is ready for legs, bracing, slide out blacksmith's helper, tool rack, and the firepot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Looks good, Dave. You're gonna get that new forge yet. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Hey Dave, Nice looking welding there, when the angles of the plate meet like that it is like having a natural angle ground into the edge to penetration of the weld is much easier. Is the angle iron lip going to be going up or down? If it is up then that would raise the long stock that would go through the pile of fire. Just something to keep in mind. Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Dave, I've got to say man, that is one pretty weld job. I really like the way you are progressing and the fact that you document everything and share your knowledge with us. Thanks. Mark<>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 15, 2010 Author Share Posted October 15, 2010 The lip goes up and there is going to be a gap cut in the angle for long stock. There will be swing gates to close these gaps when needed. Thanks for the compliments on the weld. That's the BEST one by far.....duh.....that's why I posted a picture of it! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Looking good on all counts Dave. I'm thinking this forge is going to be sweet to use. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The lip goes up and there is going to be a gap cut in the angle for long stock. There will be swing gates to close these gaps when needed. Thanks for the compliments on the weld. That's the BEST one by far.....duh.....that's why I posted a picture of it! LOL First you make one excellent weld every now an again, then you make one excellent weld every other pass, then you make one excellent weld every time you weld! Yes, we all like posting the best looking whatever. Pretty soon it will be whatever weld is representative of what you want to show. Good job! Keep this up and you go spend a few hours at the local welding school and get your endorsement on this process. That will help you if you start into architectural work as you can install your own work. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 More progress today. The lip is welded on around the edge and the legs are tacked on. I'm cutting the bracing for the legs now and will weld them on before finishing out the leg welds. That way everything ends up square.....maybe. My last name is "Square" and my middle name is "Not." So, we'll see! My dear sister stole the camera so no pics tonight. Y'all say something ugly about her so I can make fun of her and tease her about it! :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donaven Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 We wouldn't DARE say something mean about a firend's sister. What kind of men do you think we are.. *snark, snark* ;P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 16, 2010 Author Share Posted October 16, 2010 LOL.....awwc'mon, please! I'm going to try to get some done this morning before dad gets going. When he gets ready we are running 30 minutes north to get some building materials and then I've got to switch from metal working to wood working. I'll also try to get the camera safely away before sis gets up! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 More progress and a photo today. Got the legs on and the bracing for the legs. I started cutting the notches in line with the firepot but didn't get to finish that. I've kind of hit a dead end though. I don't have the steel for the tuyere and I can't put the firepot on or build the blacksmith's helper until I make the tuyere/ash dump/clinker breaker. Anyway, this is what it looks like so far. The firepot is not attached, it is just sitting there. So, I have to run to town and get some 5 inch square tubing and some 3 inch round tubing for the ash dump/tuyere. I think this is what I'm going to use as a clinker breaker. It is 4 pieces of 1/2" square, 3 1/2" long. I'm going to grind welding grooves in it and weld the whole thing together. I'm going to use a half inch rod for a handle. Another day or two and all the welding will be done. Then it needs a coat of red paint on the legs and lip. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsberg Posted October 17, 2010 Share Posted October 17, 2010 Hey Dave, How large is the open slot in the bottom of the fire pot? I have found that the best type of clinker breaker to make is one that is easily removable so that another experimental one can be put in. Sometimes they can really restrict the air flow if they aren't the right size or in the right place. Their shape can also alter the air flow pattern around them and into the fire so that the fire takes a different shape depending on the clinker breakers position. Another tip, don't weld the fire pot to the table. I have never found it to be necessary. The weight of the fire pot and its plumbing is enough to keep it in place. The fire pot will also expand and contract with the heat a lot more then the table that it is in. If you think about it are you going to be pushing around the fire pot or just basically setting stuff in it? Another reason not to attach the fire pot is so that it is easy to replace if and when it ever burns up or you want to have two fire pots say one for coal and one for charcoal. They require different depths of fuel so a deeper fire pot for charcoal will keep the heart of the fire at the same height and being able to switch them is nice but not by any means necessary. In regards to your sister, I am the second youngest of 7 with four sisters and two brothers so I learned early on that if I was to tease one of my sisters I had better have a clear path to run for my life. . . Caleb Ramsby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted October 17, 2010 Author Share Posted October 17, 2010 Ok that was something I was wondering about! I was hoping to get some water pipe fittings so I could unscrew the hole tuyere system, but first off I can't find anything big enough and second it would cost about 3 times as much if I could find it. So I'm going with welded steel. With that in mind, I was thinking of welding a square tube for the ash dump, but as you pointed out, if I don't like the clinker breaker or it burns up, I'm in a world of hurt. I don't have a tap/die set so I can't tap the bottom of the pot to screw the square pipe to the bottom of the pot. What about through bolts with the heads inside the pot? Will that work? The bottom of the pot is a little better than 5"x5." The clinker breaker hole is 1 1/2" wide and 4 inches long. I cut my clinker breaker to allow aprox. a quarter of an inch around the clinker breaker for airflow. I am planning on a 5 inch square tube to be the ash dump (square because I can cut that better than round) and a 3 inch round pipe for the air supply. I could weld two ears to the 5 inch square tube and then bolt it to the firepot. That is if the bolt heads wouldn't fry in the first fire. I would think they wouldn't because I used that with my brake drum forge a world ago and they never burned up in a year of smithing 2-3 days a week. (Then again, at demos I always quenched the brake drum off so I could put it in the truck and it never cracked! LOL) So how does all of that sounds? Will ears and through bolts work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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