Jump to content
I Forge Iron
Glenn

LaBelle Nail Mfg. Closes After 158 Years

Recommended Posts

Robert, Robert, Robert,

You’ve made your point now there is no sense in continuing to bang your head against the wall; you’ll get a headache. Those that drink the Kool-Aid do not want to be confused by the facts, the Constitution, or history. Just let it go and get back to forging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YEP!
Tremont has a lively sales program also.
click on the us map and look at the dealers.


Wow, look at the oak barrells. Hard to find those these days. I would love to have a couple for quenching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ran into Tremont when I had a 100+ year old house and took old house journal and then was called in to consult for a group that were using their product as rivets on a viking boat construction project---they needed to anneal them softer for riveting and were having an issue doing so. (needed more hot mass to slow cooling down. I heated them in groups and left them in the gas forge at the end of the day to cool overnight)

Anyone remember the WSJ article on a buggy whip manufacturer that was running 3 shifts trying to cover the demand that harness racing was creating? (Buggy Whip companies were one of the standard examples on businesses that were out of business when outmoded by technological change.)

I do think that focusing on smithing would be a good idea as most of use probably have different religious and political beliefs and I'm sure that someone here would think that the local electrical co-op down here is doing a great job...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, look at the oak barrells. Hard to find those these days. I would love to have a couple for quenching.


There are several companies producing oak barrels, mostly for wine making and the whiskey industry. A variety of sizes are available for hobby vintners and distillers. They are not hard to find.

Here are used barrels
http://www.ohiobarre...ak_barrels.html
and new and used barrels
http://www.kentuckyb...CFctw5Qod1QUOjA

For long aging of spirits there is a limit of how many times a barrel can be used for several reasons (Kentucky bourbon is made in new barrels by law) . For other spirits a used barrel from one product is used to age a different product.

This thread is an interesting read, and shows strong opinions.

Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, when you don’t agree with someone’s opinion or point of view you label it rhetoric, opinion and vitriol and cut off debate? This website is full of posts that have nothing at all to do with metalworking. Glenn just posted about unsafe tires, another posted about getting surgery, why didn’t you cut those debates off?


IForgeIron has always been about blacksmithing, metal working and open discussions. We do ask you to site references when things get heated. We also ask that you try to avoid religion and politics neither discussion relates to blacksmithing.

Yes, I posted the article on the nail mfg closing as I thought it was of interest to the blacksmithing and metal working community.
Yes I posted the article on tire dates and safety because old tires can fail (as described in the article). The intention of the article is to keep people safe so they can enjoy blacksmithing.
YES we do have a prayer list, for those that believe in such things. IForgeIron is a community and we do care about each other. I see nothing wrong with wishing you not to hurt, or wishing you to get better or heal fster so you can enjoy life.

The prayer list and the section on safety are both removed from the main blacksmithing section of the site. You can avoid them by not clicking on that thread.

I guess as a self-proclaimed moderator you will be monitoring all future posts to make sure it is about metalworking.

He and every member of the site are REAL MODERATORS, requested to moderate the forum and report anything out of place. That is now over 15,000 moderators, each with the ability to click on the little yellow triangle bottom left of each post to report that post to the site admins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It should be stated again that discussions of world politics, US politics, and politics in general should be avoided. There are venues dedicated to those subjects.

IForgeIron is dedicated to blacksmithing, and at 200K posts, there is still a lot to talk about, and a lot that has not been talked about on THAT subject.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Arftist,
So, when you don’t agree with someone’s opinion or point of view you label it rhetoric, opinion and vitriol and cut off debate? This website is full of posts that have nothing at all to do with metalworking. Glenn just posted about unsafe tires, another posted about getting surgery, why didn’t you cut those debates off? I guess as a self-proclaimed moderator you will be monitoring all future posts to make sure it is about metalworking.

Hardly. None of those topics were politcal, or divisive. This topic is.

Not a self appointed moderater, just relaying information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tremont nail makes cut nails and has a lively business selling them on the historical restoration market. You can see their adds in the Old House Journal and other of that ilk. http://www.tremontnail.com/ (Their building was damaged in the war of 1812 and by several fires afterwards and is still going!)

Interesting. That is indeed a picture of what was once the mill building of the Tremont Nail Company. I know, since I live near there. It has been empty for many years. There are a couple nail machines in there and an ancient machine shop, and a little smithy as well. No employees though. I forget what year the line was sold and moved out. Quite a while, I am sure. I am quite surprised that the present owner (of the nail line and name, The town of Wareham owns the site)
would misrepresent themselves in such dramatic fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We (the carpenters in the company I work for) use cut nails fairly often to lay wide plank floors in new construction. Perhaps there is not the demand that there used to be but floors of this type are a popular architectural style and won't go away anytime soon. Usually we use Tremont cut nails but if I recall one extra special floor was laid using Williamsburg hand forged nails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well that didn't bother the Japanese's motorcycle makers one bit. People still bought their bikes and fat cats in the government bureaucracies had more cash to give out to their friends and bribe members of the legislature with. Government is inherently corrupt and that is why it must be restrained. No, the only people that were hurt by those tariffs were the Americans purchasing a Japanese motorcycle.

Harley had problems because its quality became legendary for being horrible. The Sportster shook so bad it would push the blood out of your hands. It wasn't tariffs that made Harley succeed, it was Harley that made them succeed. They went through hard times, took a good long look at their products, fixed the quality issues, innovated counterbalancers for the camshafts of its huge v-twins and restructured its marketing campaign to appeal to core Americana instead of trying to get the sport bike crowd off their Honda. They reinvented cruising, promoted a number of events such as Sturgis and redefined the culture of the harley biker from the outlaw bikers to the cruising biker.

Harley succeeded because of itself. And no matter what tariffs were imposed, if Harley didn't improve itself they were toast. I give Harley Davidson ALL the credit for saving Harley and the government all the credit for exploiting the issue to sap more money out of the American motorcycle driving public.
Oh BTW I have driven Harleys Since 1990. :) So I know quite a bit about them.


Robert,There are just too many false statements in your post to correct them all.Just to start the counterbalances you speak about have to do with the crankshaft not the camshafts.Harley has always been about large bore highway bikes and really had no competition since Indian went under till Japanese imports ripped off most of Harley`s designs and became carbon copies of Harleys to include Japan`s "new" V-twin designs.Since the in-line 4s didn`t put Harley under(due to government intervention),once the sanctions were lifted just about every Japanese motorcycle company came back with their own version of the "outdated and obsolete" V-twin "cruiser" copied from HD right down to the design of the head and tail lights.

Sportsters were originally a competition bike and the record setting design was taken from the track to the street so If you ever rode one that "pushed the blood out of your hands" it was because you or one of your friends put it together wrong.The shop I worked in(American Cycle,Killeen Texas)ran a sportster powered drag bike that used to beat all comers and we never had any problems keeping the blood in our hands despite the skinned knuckles.
The quality control for Harley was not an issue till it was taken over by AMF and that was during the time frame I mentioned.
The "outlaw biker" was what kept Harley going during those AMF years and came up with many of the innovations the yuppie bikers take for granted.Things like the soft-tail frame,belt drive primary and other"factory" innovations as well as most of the styling that`s popular today is the product of R&D done by such old time outlaws as Dick Allen and others you probably never heard of.
As I said in my previous post,you need to do more research and get your facts straight,especially when you`re talking to an "outlaw biker" patch holder since the 1970`s.
I was customizing Harleys back when you had to make your own parts and we were extending springers with old Ford radius rods,"outlaw style".
You`re way out of your element and weight class on this one Robert.Time to pull your pants up(your butt`s showing) and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the point of the post wasnt to compete in knowledge of harleys. I drive them, I dont mess with them mechanically. The ENTIRE point of my post is that it was the COMPANY that made the changes it needed to survive. The government had little to nothing to do with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glenn,
I am aware that politics as such is taboo as subject on this website however, when discussing the closing of a manufacturing plant, the economy and inevitably politics will weave its way into the debate. And, some people are very passionate about their beliefs like Robert. It recently happened on another thread about unions if you remember.

By the second post on this thread it had already turned political and nobody reported it or if they did, you did not remove it.



Don't blame me. I didn't vote for him.


Robert posted the forth replay which was, I guess was very provocative. And again it was not removed as political.



39% corporate Tax rate + union mandated wages + stupid environmental regs = bankruptcy or companies moving to china which have none of those issues.

America used to manufacture some of the best goods in the world until unions and progressives started driving the manufacturing overseas.


In the ninth post, Stewartthesmith posted a response to Robert which was political



it was not unions nor liberals that chased away manufacturing in america. It was tax breaks for companies to export our jobs that chased away manufacturing in america.


Post number 10 by bajajoaquin is the most political post so far naming candidates for office and it was not removed



Really? DDT, lead paint, CFCs, and smog are smart?

Carly Fiorina (our Republican candidate) shipping jobs to China and changing HP from a high-margin market leader to a low-margin commodity builder is the example of how conservatives will lead the country to renewed industrial prosperity?

Meg Whitman being a part of the Goldman Sachs pillaging of the economy, making $120mil and laying off workers?


Stewartthesmith agrees with bajajoaquin in number 11



you and I agree on this. It wasn't "progressives" who exported all of our jobs, it was corporate greed, which is patently unpatriotic. Paying a fair wage for a day's work is as American as apple pie and pumpkins at halloween-tme. Giving tax breaks to companies who export manufacturing jobs is what caused this.........anything else is deflection.


Sam Thompson posts in number 12.


Ah well... That's capitalism for ya!



Robert posts in number 14 and it just takes off from there.

My point Glenn is that there are no less than 11 political posts in this thread before Arftist thought it was political and not about metalworking in post number 20. And how hypocritical was it for Arftist to post his point of view in post number 19 just 13 minutes earlier.

If you look at the positive and negative ratings of the posts it becomes clear where some of the people stand politically and the opposition needed to be silenced and that is when the thread became too political and not about metalworking.

So if you want to keep politics off this website, I suggest you nip it in the bud when it starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Post number 10 by bajajoaquin is the most political post so far naming candidates for office and it was not removed



Most political? Perhaps.

But also the most specific to that point. It's easy to throw around generalities about how bad everything is (environmental regs), but it's much more difficult to say specifically what's bad, and defend your opinion.

Same goes for a blanket statement that "progressives" are hurting America. It's easy to be nebulous and call people names when they disagree with your opinion, but it's harder to say specifically what harm they're causing, without distorting facts.

It's easy to say that Harley "did it themselves" and all the government did was steal our money. But it ignores the lobbying Harley did to put the tariff in place, maintain monopoly status on sales channels, and the use of the patent and trademark offices to try and seize public domain property.

So yes, when people make venomous generalities, I am likely to reply with specific rebuttals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fervently believe in free speech. Should the free market of ideas go down, tyranny will be not far behind. I may agree with NOTHING that aftist and some others post on the subject of politics but I respect and would fervently defend their right to say it. I would hope they do me the same courtesy.

As for the original post, I hope those working at the factory can find a job and move on to the next big challenge in life. We all have to remember that challenges are meant to be overcome so dont get bogged down in what might have been.

As for Tremont, my friend said he would be calling them up. So more business for them and a good positive outcome for this thread. :)

Finally, when it comes to oak barrels, ya they are findable. I should have specified "affordable and findable" Also I dont need a 55 gallon drum for a quenching barrel but something like a 15 gallon keg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. That is indeed a picture of what was once the mill building of the Tremont Nail Company. I know, since I live near there. It has been empty for many years. There are a couple nail machines in there and an ancient machine shop, and a little smithy as well. No employees though. I forget what year the line was sold and moved out. Quite a while, I am sure. I am quite surprised that the present owner (of the nail line and name, The town of Wareham owns the site)
would misrepresent themselves in such dramatic fashion.


So what you are saying is that the factory has been defunct for some time, but for some unknown reason it makes the news now?
Odd, but it would still be nice to see what the place looks like inside now.
If the building is on the National registrar/register? then I assume the interior will be gutted of all "scrap" and be left a husk.

Ric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lenin said show me a capitalist and I will show you someone who will sell you the rope and rent you the tree from which to hang him from, or something to that affect. We did just that by doing business with china. Greed is greed how ever you label it, the end result is the same. You will end up with rich and poor winners and losers one method just takes a little longer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what you are saying is that the factory has been defunct for some time, but for some unknown reason it makes the news now?
Odd, but it would still be nice to see what the place looks like inside now.
If the building is on the National registrar/register? then I assume the interior will be gutted of all "scrap" and be left a husk.

Ric


Ric, the building has been unoccupied for decades IIRC. I will check and get back. The business itself never stopped, it moved to another location.
Thankyou for mentioning the National Register. If it is not on the list, it should be. It is a wonderful large rambling building/yard, with a rail siding. Additionaly there is a millpond, dam and sluceway still intact. Much of the orignal waterwheel/ gearing seems to still remain. The main factory floor is some 6-8 feet lower than the mill pond and the walls are no longer watertight.
The floor is wet. The town has just started to tend the building, re-roofing this year. The old factory store is a gift shop and well-received (my wife likes it). As I mentioned earlier, there is a small smithy inside, an ancient machine shop, a single little giant PH, unsure what size, possibly a 50#, and a couple nail making machines. I am sure they were the most obsolete and left behind.
All my knowledge of the inside derives from looking through the windows.
Thankyou very much for your interest, the place occupies my thoughts often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And how hypocritical was it for Arftist to post his point of view in post number 19 just 13 minutes earlier.





Mainely Bob and I have a remarkably similar background and comunicate off the forum. Additionaly, I have a very short attention span. I often don't read long posts, except those by Frosty, another person with whom I have connections other than here. I read his long posts since they are full of wisdom and facts.

If you read my first post, you will see that I was responding to Mainely Bob, adding information to what he said. I read his post first, I was most interested in what he had to say. I would dearly love to respond to the other fellow's posts, but not on this forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mainely Bob and I have a remarkably similar background and comunicate off the forum. Additionaly, I have a very short attention span. I often don't read long posts, except those by Frosty, another person with whom I have connections other than here. I read his long posts since they are full of wisdom and facts.

If you read my first post, you will see that I was responding to Mainely Bob, adding information to what he said. I read his post first, I was most interested in what he had to say. I would dearly love to respond to the other fellow's posts, but not on this forum.

It is not my intention to impugn you or your post but rather, to say that it was obvious that you at least read Robert’s posts or you would not have known what Mainely Bob was talking about when you responded and yet when you responded to Mainely Bob’s post, you did not think the thread was too political or not about metalworking. Thirteen minutes later you did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not my intention to impugn you or your post but rather, to say that it was obvious that you at least read Robert’s posts or you would not have known what Mainely Bob was talking about when you responded and yet when you responded to Mainely Bob’s post, you did not think the thread was too political or not about metalworking. Thirteen minutes later you did.


Thats correct. After I read Bob's post and responded, I read Robert's post and responded. Understand now? I am done talking about this, except for nail making factories that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At one of the IronMasters Conferences I met an industrial archeologist whose area of interest was the early nail making machines and how the technology progressed until we got the modern wire nails.

Also the Sagus Ironworks ibe if America's first had a major business in making nail rod and had a very early use of a rolling and slitting mill---cutting edge at the time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am aware that politics as such is taboo as subject on this website however, when discussing the closing of a manufacturing plant, the economy and inevitably politics will weave its way into the debate. So if you want to keep politics off this website, I suggest you nip it in the bud when it starts.


I agree that plant closings in the US economy today will have political references, but it should not be the main topic of the thread.

Blacksmithing (cut nail manufacturing) is falling by the way side in today's world, as wire nails are faster and more economical to produce. They even drive the nails pneumatically from guns holding coils of hundreds of nails, to speed up the building process. One machine can now do the works of several men. The nail gun is $300 or the cost of 3 men for a one day's labor (10 hours at $10 per hour x3). Now you have one man that can out produce what used to take a full crew. The nail gun is paid for the second day it is used. Two people are out of work and laid off. Both actions save money. Nothing political about that, just good business on the part of the owner. Same reason blacksmith's buy power hammers and then lay off strikers.

As to "nip it in the bud" I leave it to the membership to self moderate. Each post has a yellow triangle bottom left of the post. Click there to report it to the mods and admins that you find out of place so it can be addressed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...