Glenn Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 LaBelle Nail Closes After 158 Years click here for the story The plant - which is located near the intersection of Interstate 470 and W.Va. 2 in South Wheeling - opened in what was then Wheeling, Va., in 1852. After West Virginia officially separated from Virginia in 1863, LaBelle continued to play a role in moving industry forward throughout the United States. The company produced five distinct varieties of nails, including spikes, common nails, boat nails, stainless steel nails and tie keys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Don't blame me. I didn't vote for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Thank you for posting this Glenn...so many go under without any word being spread. I think paragraphs five and 11 sum it up, but then paragraph nine sets the trend we will continue to see.....decline for a while now. Philip, Do your students take non Chinese names for business? I spoke to one graduate from a program and he said they were encouraged to do so....his name was "Jack". Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Simmons Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 39% corporate Tax rate + union mandated wages + stupid environmental regs = bankruptcy or companies moving to china which have none of those issues. America used to manufacture some of the best goods in the world until unions and progressives started driving the manufacturing overseas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagr8tim Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 I thought the plant had been idled the past few years. It's just a stone's throw from where I grew up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Go visit now or see if the local historical society or photographer for the local newspaper will document the site as it sits now. My little power hammer was made in Kaukauna, Wisconsin just down the road a bit....nothing remains of the site and scant little information. It closed better than a two generations ago. Had some photos been taken I would have liked to have seen them. All that remains are the tools they made and the advertising. Folk in that area have a chance to save it for posterity on paper and digital media... if nothing else. Interviews with the workers and such would be nice. I have a video from England of a hand rolling mill which closed days after the filming...it is quite good to have such a record. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Ah folks that old an industry of that type there should be a bonanza of smithing stuff hidden away; pretty much any factory dating from pre WWII had a complete smithing set up---I know of plate glass factory and a sugar refinery that had power hammers! I once went to the close down auction of a car repair business that had been open since 1919---they of course had a smithy as part of the original equipment...Also a HVAC company that had moved to the "new" building in the 1930's---got a nice hay budden at that one. Shame to let them go to a scrapyard! Someone nearby look up that fellow and talk to him or his father about possible finds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagr8tim Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Go visit now or see if the local historical society or photographer for the local newspaper will document the site as it sits now. I'm going to be back that way in about 2 weeks. If I have time, I'll go poke around and see what I can find or atleast snap some pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 39% corporate Tax rate + union mandated wages + stupid environmental regs = bankruptcy or companies moving to china which have none of those issues. America used to manufacture some of the best goods in the world until unions and progressives started driving the manufacturing overseas. Really? DDT, lead paint, CFCs, and smog are smart? Carly Fiorina (our Republican candidate) shipping jobs to China and changing HP from a high-margin market leader to a low-margin commodity builder is the example of how conservatives will lead the country to renewed industrial prosperity? Meg Whitman being a part of the Goldman Sachs pillaging of the economy, making $120mil and laying off workers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Ah well... That's capitalism for ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 Regardless of what our political beliefs are, it is sad that this plant and so many others have had to close and the people that relied on them for a livelyhood have to find work elsewhere. I hope and pray that they fare well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Simmons Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 it was not unions nor liberals that chased away manufacturing in america. It was tax breaks for companies to export our jobs that chased away manufacturing in america. Capitalism is the most moral system out there. Companies survive by catering to the market and if they mess up enough, the market will slap them down and they will go out of business. Socialism and its brother communism have killed more people on the planet than any other ideology. The Nazis, Soviets, Chinese, leaders of cambodia, south america and so on have killed hundreds of millions of people in their quest for the "common good." America was set up to value the individual rights of people and property rights over the collective and it is through the workings of that system that america has become the single biggest superpower on the planet in a scant 250 years. All the socialist countries have warred, slaughtered, murdered and collapsed. What is interesting to me is how people have been "re-educated" by the left to think that socialism is the only moral system when all it accomplishes is to put an unaccountable bureaucrat in charge rather than an executive that must face the wrath of his shareholders and consumers. People seem to think the demigods in the government are somehow superior to those "evil" capitalists no matter how many times those demigods, enslave, murder, destroy and impoverish the people they are supposed to protect. Simply put 39% corporate tax rate plus people being paid 40$ an hour to put a BOLT on a car caused the collapse of the manufacturing sector in america. The unions cant be fired, cant be broken and can destroy companies. They destroyed GM and chrysler and now the american taxpayer is funding the stupid pensions promised to the union workers. This is all the while the union bosses get paid millions and continue to fund organized crime, threaten and cajole the members, and support left wing causes with non-optional dues. Now it is cheaper to get the raw materials, ship them to china, assemble the product and ship it back to america then to manufacture the same product in america. The unions have put themselves clean out of a Job and as a result manufacturing is all but dead in america. Companies exist to make a profit. That is their motivation. Do you start your blacksmithing shop with the expectation of charity. If someone wants a fence made and you ask 5000 for the gate do yo survive if the government steps in and says you can only charge 3000? So those evil corporations and their evil greed is what makes the economy go. When they make more money, they expand operations and hire more workers and invent more products which makes them more money and so on. Socialism only bleeds society dry of all incentive, all property and allows those with the "gimme" mentality to exist off the backs of those who actually make the economy go. Oh and one final thing. The concept of a "fair wage" is a relative one. If your idea of that wage puts the company out of business then you have "fair waged" yourself right out of a job. No, the company is not going to go bankrupt paying you your "fair wage". They will simply take their business elsewhere. And you have no right whatsoever to the earnings of another person. You will get paid for a job based on what it is worth to the market. To have it any different is suicide to business and means unemployment to the worker. Its like I teach my son. I hold up a pencil and I ask how much it is worth. He says 50 cents. I correct him and say its worth whatever I can get the market to pay for it. If you cant get the market to pay what you want then you have to upgrade your skills, invent something or make a business of your own. If you cant do that you will go out of business. As one philosopher once said, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Usually when socialists run out of other people's money, "liquidating" the "undesirables" is not far behind. It has happened over and over and over again in history. How many times must humanity put its hand on that burner before we learn the lesson. Now vote me down if you don't like it. I don't care. What I speak is the cold hard truth. Regardless of what our political beliefs are, it is sad that this plant and so many others have had to close and the people that relied on them for a livelyhood have to find work elsewhere. I hope and pray that they fare well. Yes I agree with this wholeheartedly. you and I agree on this. It wasn't "progressives" who exported all of our jobs, it was corporate greed, which is patently unpatriotic. Paying a fair wage for a day's work is as American as apple pie and pumpkins at halloween-tme. Giving tax breaks to companies who export manufacturing jobs is what caused this.........anything else is deflection. Also patently absurd. Why not charge 100% tax for any company that outsources? Wouldn't that stop the COLD??? No actually, it wouldn't. They would simply move their corporate headquarters to other countries and then there wouldn't be ANY of their jobs in america. The more you penalize businesses for doing business here, the more they will leave the USA and simply sell to americans as exports. How do we stop that? Take over the world? One world government run by the UN where our constitution is superseded by the general assembly (a group comprised of 3/4 two bit dictators and thugs). No no. The way to make america grow is to encourage businesses to do business here. Being hostile to business is tantamount to strapping bowling balls to your ankles and going swimming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Robert, any company that outsources should be charged a much higher tax rate, import tariff or any other means to keep our workers working in good jobs (read NOT WAL MART etc..) If that company choose to not sell in the USA then someone else here at home will step up to the plat and provide the needed goods. Lets talk about nails. It seems that oriental nails are much cheaper than domestic nails so people buy them, of course they do. Same as everything else. If oriental nails had a tariff upon entering this country the cost in the store would be balanced and who in their right mind is going to pay the same money for an imported nail. Oh yea no company would waste their time to import. Since this gov is not doing anything to help the people and hasn't for quite some time it is easy to see the gov is only here to support the corporations. US foreign policy proves that since the conquest of the Hawaiian islands to the two current "wars" we are involed in now. Not a far stretch since the gov is run By the Corporation, For the Corporation, people are just here to nickel and dime to death for the sake of corporate amerika. rant over for now Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 It sounds like that business was sliding for some time after reading the article comments by locals. In order to survive a business has to be able to adapt to ever changing market conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Simmons Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Robert, any company that outsources should be charged a much higher tax rate, import tariff or any other means to keep our workers working in good jobs (read NOT WAL MART etc..) If that company choose to not sell in the USA then someone else here at home will step up to the plat and provide the needed goods. Lets talk about nails. It seems that oriental nails are much cheaper than domestic nails so people buy them, of course they do. Same as everything else. If oriental nails had a tariff upon entering this country the cost in the store would be balanced and who in their right mind is going to pay the same money for an imported nail. Oh yea no company would waste their time to import. Since this gov is not doing anything to help the people and hasn't for quite some time it is easy to see the gov is only here to support the corporations. US foreign policy proves that since the conquest of the Hawaiian islands to the two current "wars" we are involed in now. Not a far stretch since the gov is run By the Corporation, For the Corporation, people are just here to nickel and dime to death for the sake of corporate amerika. rant over for now Rob Yet no time in history has that ever worked. If we charge a tariff for chinese goods what do you think they will do for our goods? Furthermore, what would that accomplish since manufacturing has been driven out of the USA. Where are the people going to get things that are now made in china? The answer is, still from china, but the government will be collecting fat taxes from the people and those in power will be deciding who to distribute YOUR money to. Oh you didn't think the companies would swallow that tax did you? Of course they will pass on taxes to the people. Companies don't directly pay tax, they collect it from the people in the form of higher prices. Once the price is so high they cant make a profit because of lower demand, they stop making that product or go out of business. Thats the problem with socialism and marxism. They all assume that the "enemy corporations" will just take it on the chin. Again these companies are in business to make a profit and that profit is best made when they provide an excellent product for a price the market will bear. Once the market will not bear the price that the company needs to make a profit, the company will go out of business and that is what has happened to steel mills, manufacturing plants, nail factories and all sorts of factory work in the last 60 years. The marxist or socialist responds by demanding government control despite the lessons of history telling us that is disastrous. I ask you how many hundred million more people must die in the world before the left finally realizes that it is the system of socialism and marxism that is evil and does not work? Socialists come back again and again with "it can work if the right people are in charge!!!" Again and again that socialist experiment proves murderous and oppressive. And yet with all of the vitriol slung at capitalism, it did propel a country only 250 and change years old to a position of being a superpower, with the best standard of living, the best equality for women and minorities and the best place to be on the planet. That evil old capitalism did that in the meantime socialist government after socialist government has come and gone, usually taking few million lives with it. Capitalism ensured that probably nearly 9 out of 10 medical inventions in the past 50 years were invented in america. Capitalism invented the microchip, the automobile, the electric light bulb, the solar panel, the very internet we are debating on right now and countless other improvements in humanity. Those evil profit seeking corporations and small businesses have driven the modernization of the world and even massive reductions in hunger. Freedom, liberty, capitalism, the dream of starting from nothing and becoming rich drove a man named bill gates to develop a piece of software in his garage while Steve Jobs did the same in another garage. The capitalist system allowed an immigrant to become rich and then governor of california. Nowhere else on the planet can a nobody become a multi billionaire just by sheer force of will. In most countries if you are not born into the aristocracy, you will never get there, if you arent born to riches you will never achieve them. Only in America, the evil old capitalist empire it is, can a nobody working out of his garage become one of the richest men in the world. People flood to America daily in the millions to try to capture that which can be had on FEW places on the planet. And yet we dont see a flood of americans striving to immigrate to communist china. All of this because of what you would call "corporate greed." The answer lies not in the government. The government is the PROBLEM. The answer lies in liberty, low taxes, fewer regulations and allowing businesses to do what they do best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 "Yet at no time in history has that ever worked",really Robert? How about back in the 70/80`s when it was proven that Japan was dumping motorcycles into American markets in order to put US companies out of business and the government stepped in with import taxes that saved Harley Davidson?Harley came back to be one of the most influential motorcycle companies in the world.That wouldn`t have happened if they hadn`t had some protection and help from Washington. Be nice if people would get their facts straight instead of just posting hearsay and dogma. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Yep, IIRC it was a 45% tarrif the first year, declining by 5% a year untill it was gone. It worked like a charm, exposing american motorcycles to a large number of people who considered them too expensive previously. Interestingly, the japanese companies also thrived, introducing somewhat comparable models for the higher end market they had ignored before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Robert, your posts above are filled with rhetoric, opinion and vitriol. They beg detailed response, yet this is not the place for such. Please confine comments on this forum to metal-working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I found this article.Dated 1886 http://wheeling.weirton.lib.wv.us/history/bus/labelle.htm Seems to me the company hasn't moved forward much,lately. How often does anyone use a cut nail anymore? From the original article posted by Glenn."We tried to get someone to market our products, but it just never happened," Hickman said OUCH!!! And yes I do hate it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Robert, your posts above are filled with rhetoric, opinion and vitriol. They beg detailed response, yet this is not the place for such. Please confine comments on this forum to metal-working. Arftist, So, when you don’t agree with someone’s opinion or point of view you label it rhetoric, opinion and vitriol and cut off debate? This website is full of posts that have nothing at all to do with metalworking. Glenn just posted about unsafe tires, another posted about getting surgery, why didn’t you cut those debates off? I guess as a self-proclaimed moderator you will be monitoring all future posts to make sure it is about metalworking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagr8tim Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I found this article.Dated 1886 http://wheeling.weir...bus/labelle.htm The last I heard, the only people using cut nails were people making crafts. I had a friend who had a nice cross made out of 2 cut nails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Tremont nail makes cut nails and has a lively business selling them on the historical restoration market. You can see their adds in the Old House Journal and other of that ilk. http://www.tremontnail.com/ (Their building was damaged in the war of 1812 and by several fires afterwards and is still going!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 YEP! Tremont has a lively sales program also. click on the us map and look at the dealers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Robert, your posts above are filled with rhetoric, opinion and vitriol. They beg detailed response, yet this is not the place for such. Please confine comments on this forum to metal-working. I second this motion thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Simmons Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Arftist, So, when you don’t agree with someone’s opinion or point of view you label it rhetoric, opinion and vitriol and cut off debate? This website is full of posts that have nothing at all to do with metalworking. Glenn just posted about unsafe tires, another posted about getting surgery, why didn’t you cut those debates off? I guess as a self-proclaimed moderator you will be monitoring all future posts to make sure it is about metalworking. Couldnt have said it better myself. And as a point of order, I thought my posts were both filled with love for america, hope and belief in the people of america. The only people that could have gotten "hate" off them would be marxists or socialists. For the record, I believe in the capability of PEOPLE to excel and triumph in their endeavors if so left alone by the government. Tremont nail makes cut nails and has a lively business selling them on the historical restoration market. You can see their adds in the Old House Journal and other of that ilk. http://www.tremontnail.com/ (Their building was damaged in the war of 1812 and by several fires afterwards and is still going!) Ahh a success story. But glad you brought it up. I have a friend looking for a few thousand nails for a restoration project and I will point them at this company. I cant quite make them fast enough nor accurate enough yet to meet his demands but I am sure this company can. I second this motion thank you When you become a moderator that will matter. Until then, I believe that so long as I remain in the boundaries of the rules of the forum I may say what I wish. The fact that you don't agree with me doesn't give you the right to silence me. Nor would I wish to silence you. I fervently believe in freedom of speech and the marketplace of ideas. You make your arguments, I make mine and people reading decide for themselves. That is how honest debate works. I am also a vehement libertarian, historian and American patriot that believes the original founding of this country was pure genius. I am proud of that. "Yet at no time in history has that ever worked",really Robert? How about back in the 70/80`s when it was proven that Japan was dumping motorcycles into American markets in order to put US companies out of business and the government stepped in with import taxes that saved Harley Davidson?Harley came back to be one of the most influential motorcycle companies in the world.That wouldn`t have happened if they hadn`t had some protection and help from Washington. Be nice if people would get their facts straight instead of just posting hearsay and dogma. Well that didn't bother the Japanese's motorcycle makers one bit. People still bought their bikes and fat cats in the government bureaucracies had more cash to give out to their friends and bribe members of the legislature with. Government is inherently corrupt and that is why it must be restrained. No, the only people that were hurt by those tariffs were the Americans purchasing a Japanese motorcycle. Harley had problems because its quality became legendary for being horrible. The Sportster shook so bad it would push the blood out of your hands. It wasn't tariffs that made Harley succeed, it was Harley that made them succeed. They went through hard times, took a good long look at their products, fixed the quality issues, innovated counterbalancers for the camshafts of its huge v-twins and restructured its marketing campaign to appeal to core Americana instead of trying to get the sport bike crowd off their Honda. They reinvented cruising, promoted a number of events such as Sturgis and redefined the culture of the harley biker from the outlaw bikers to the cruising biker. Harley succeeded because of itself. And no matter what tariffs were imposed, if Harley didn't improve itself they were toast. I give Harley Davidson ALL the credit for saving Harley and the government all the credit for exploiting the issue to sap more money out of the American motorcycle driving public. Oh BTW I have driven Harleys Since 1990. So I know quite a bit about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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