Forge13 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 gonna try to post a pic of some knives i tried...so here goes....lemme know how to improve please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 lemme know how to improve please. Same for all, Practice, Practice, Practice~ I was once told at horseshoeing school that if I were to punch 1000 nail holes I would "Start" getting the hang of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 youcan straighten the handles without destroying the twist with a wooden or rawhide hammer. just bring it back to forge temps and make adjustment with the wooden hammer and board/stump/post instead of anvil and hammer. wood will move the metal but not enough to mess up the twists... just remember your straightening it not forgeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Slow down. Be patient. In my view those aren't bad -- it's just that most of them aren't finished. Use lighter hammer blows (and plenty of them) to smooth out the hammer marks and refine the shapes. Take it easy. Strike square and flat, not with the edges of the hammer. It looks to me like your aggressiveness with the hammer is outstripping your control of it. When I watch smiths like Brian Brazeal and Mark Aspery, who are both masters with hand hammers, I'm blown away by the way they can hit the steel so hard and so accurately. I can do either one -- but not both at the same time. That skill takes time to develop, and I'm not there yet. It looks to me like you may be in a similar boat. What kind of hammer are you using? Edit: Oh, and you can deal with the upward curve of the blade (if you don't want it) in a couple different ways. One is to counterbend the blank before you start forging in the bevels -- anticipate the curve, in other words, and correct for it in advance. Another is to periodically stand the blade on-edge on the anvil, as it's starting to curve upward, and hammer on the spine to straighten it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 COOL....thanks so much....to clarify some aspects i got enough materials together to try these about a month ago. it is, for sure, a bare minimum setup...claw hammer, railroad anvil set on the ground, rusty riveters forge, old coal, blow dryer, channel locks, bucket of water, etc. goals were 1- heat some metal (accomplished) 2- pound out a flat knife shape (accomplished) 3- draw out some metal (accomplished) 4- make a spike knife with a twist handle (accomplished) 5- forge weld a piece of file into the spike (failed) 6- heat treat knives (untried) 7- make damascus steel (failed) 8- anneal some 1018 rod to try and make it more ferrous (untried) 9- make a tattoo machine out of damascus steel and annealed rod for coil cores (maybe lol) i'm still working on acquiring materials and such...so far i have nothing invested except time and energy which is why i am enjoying the set up that i have....and also probably why i'm suffering some failures.lol.....i have a fool for a teacher. thanks for some real advice...this site has been real cool. -S.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Chambers Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 The claw hammer makes me cringe, if you can spare $20.00 go to sears and buy a 32oz cross pein with a nice but somewhat stout wooden handle, the ball pein is nice too for the price, if no sears around lowes or homedepot will have them but I dont like fiberglass or steel handles. Also this link might be helpful for what your after: $50 Knife Shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Yeah, no wonder the blades look the way they do. Claw hammers were not made for forging! A big ball pein would be much better. Drilling hammer, engineer's hammer -- practically anything would beat a claw hammer! You can't make steel "more ferrous" by annealing. You may be able to make it softer. Ferrous basically just means "containing iron." For hardening spikes you're going to want the most brutally fast quench you can come up with -- brine, if you can't do Super Quench. You should probably skip tempering altogether. "High carbon" spikes are pretty low in carbon. "Old coal?" Heck, mine is millions of years old! I second the $50 Knife Shop suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 lol...free coal.... the idea with annealing the steel rod is to make core for electromagnets...by annealing the steel should become softer and more ferrous...ok not more ferrous but will make a stronger magnet? it's difficult to find low carbon steel...iron...do you foresee flaws in my plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 I don't know much about magnet making, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 lol...free coal.... the idea with annealing the steel rod is to make core for electromagnets...by annealing the steel should become softer and more ferrous...ok not more ferrous but will make a stronger magnet? it's difficult to find low carbon steel...iron...do you foresee flaws in my plan? First a few things: 1) It will become softer, because that is the job of annealing, not that 1018 will be much different either annealed or after a dunk in super quench. 2) Ferro is from the Latin for Iron, you cant make it more so, it either is or it isn't containing Iron. 3) It is not hard to locate low carbon steel. 4) To increase the magnetic capability of steel you need Silicon as an addition to increase the conductivity. I don't know where you got your information, but please do yourself a favor and back up and start over, with real facts not rumors. Jumping in and trying to make blades at day one is not going to help you get good blades later, learn the basics first then progress to specialized areas of smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Low carbon steels are the easiest to find as they are the most used! Transformer laminations are made from alloys specifically designed to have as little hysteresis as possible and large magnetic permeabilities. In general they are very low in carbon and may have silicon added. Annealing a higher carbon steel does not change the alloying! I generally buy my hammers at fleamarkets and don't spend more than US$5 for one. They often will need to be dressed to provide a smooth "rocker" face without a sharp edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted October 2, 2010 Author Share Posted October 2, 2010 thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted October 2, 2010 Author Share Posted October 2, 2010 this is from a tattoo forum...i would like to know what he's talking about. "All of my machines have 99.8% pure iron cores this isn’t the same as 1018 don’t be fooled." so what is this magical 99.8 pure iron? and where could i go about obtaining some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordcaradoc Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Forge13, The cores in a tattoo machine use two alternating electromagnets to move a needle bar up and down. The cores are wrapped in a copper coil to create the electromagnet (remember school science class?) and if I remember correctly, the "Pure Iron Core" simply helps them be stronger magnets, so you get a better, stronger action of the needle. It is a matter that, just like in any hobby/vocation, people want to make their tools the best they can. The same thing can happen here, just don't start any conversations about who makes the best power hammers. Here is the article I got my info from: Wikipedia: Tatoo Machine Best regards and good luck, Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Pure iron is available... It can be bought from Wagner and I have seen ads in ABANAs Anvils ring for some... Last time I bought some it was only available in two sizes and cost around 6 bucks a pound plus shipping... Pure iron is strange stuff.... it can be forged cold to a degree ( it does not seem to work harden like steel, or at least not nearly as much) and will spread like butter when hot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 yeah...thanks alot! yeah. i built a couple of tattoo machines...and i got a working knowledge of the systems involved. some guys on the tattoo forums use 1018 and some swear by this pure iron. thanks for the info on where to look for it....most coil cores for tattoo machines are 1 1/4 long and about 5/16 wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 lol...also tried to make a knife outta an old file....i'd get it hot and hit it and it would break in half....should i anneal it prior to attempting to forge the blade? or perhaps i didn't have enough heat. or somethin else? lol...back to tha drawing board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Welcome to the forum Forge13. Got a human kind of name you're willing to share? It isn't a requirement but sure humanizes a guy. Including your general location in your header really helps too, you never know when someone near you can show you the ropes so you don't have to figure it all out yourself. It's also REALLY handy when one of us old farts is traveling and doesn't need to rely on our memory to recall who's close by if we want a tasty snack or comfy spot to nap. RR spikes won't make you a "knife" unless you San Mai a high carbon bit for an edge. Just forging them into knife shaped objects will give you a letter opener if you do well other wise practice is all they'll gain you. Join a close by smithing or bladesmith org. attend meetings, make some friends, maybe take a class or two and learn to blacksmith before moving into the more advanced realms like bladesmithing. If you want high power material for electro magentic cores just buy em. Rare earth magents can be had for reasonable and lets you just make the thing without learning metallurgy. Lastly, this and a very few other online sites will help you learn the REAL POOP about blacksmithing, forget most of what you find on Youtube or other various "traditional" blacksmithing sites. We'll be happy to answer your questions even if we have to make stuff up. Frosty the Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted October 9, 2010 Author Share Posted October 9, 2010 so yeah...i've heard all about rr spikes not being knives...so what went wrong with the file i attempted to forge into a blade shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 On the file, my first guess is it wasn't hot enough, or heated fully through. Annealing before working a file is unnecessary unless you want to grind the teeth off first. This is considered a god practice by many because every tooth is a stress riser and a potential fault waiting to happen. My second guess is that there was a flaw in it that somehow didn't break till you heated it to reforge it. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge13 Posted October 14, 2010 Author Share Posted October 14, 2010 cool...when i get an idea i get excited to try it out...so i try it first...probably should wait till i do a little practice on a spike and then try when i get nice and hot. thanks very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 My guess on the file would be, not hot enough or perhaps a crack from a drop. If it's hot enough the teeth won't have too much of a stress riser effect. Leaf spring stock is good for learning blades as it's pretty forgiving in heat treat. Making leaves is good forging practice for blades. Once you learn to forge the only thing you need to think about is WHAT to forge. Frosty the Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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