clay for forging practice

[MattBower]

My eleven year-old (daughter, no less) wants to try her hand at smithing. I've seen mention of the idea of practicing forging on clay. I thought before we jump into hot steel I might set her up on an anvil in the basement and let her get comfortable swinging a hammer and pushing material around. I don't know if it's really necessary, but it seems likely to make her first experience with hot steel go a little more smoothly. I'd be happy to hear opinions on that.

My question, though, is whether anyone has any suggestions about what sort of clay to use, and where to get it. Seems like it'll have to be pretty stiff, whatever it is. I was thinking some sort of plasticine would be nice, just so we wouldn't have to worry about it drying out. Does that seem reasonable?

[kcrucible]

Interesting idea. Getting a big block of "Sculpy" (a plasticine) from a craft store would probably do ya. Places like A.C. Moore and Michaels will carry it. As for A.C. Moore, they regularly have 40-50% off any one item coupons in the paper, so could be pretty cheap.

[Naz]

That's a great way to learn, I use it to practice dragon and horse heads, different leaves, etc...
My daughter also loves to play with it at the anvil.
I just got the cheapest I could find and it works fine. The thing to remember is that as it works as hot iron, the whole piece of clay has the same maleability as opposed to say heating just the tip of a bar not to distort the rest of it.
Have fun with it !
Naz

[Fe-Wood]

As they all mentioned above- Good stuff. I just started using clay so I can work out a sculpture I'm doing. The only tip I would is It is better worked cold. It can be VERY soft when it is warm. Try putting it in the refrigerator after you have made the stock material you plan on working with. Its great for learning hammer control and cause and affect for a beginner. AND its easy to re-use.
Have fun!

[brian.pierson]

Matt,

Here is a link to one of Brian Brazeal's posts. He shows making a tong blank in hot steel and cold clay. He said the clay he got was at the Hobby Lobby. Interesting read and still on your topic.



Brian Pierson

[Grafvitnir]

Here you can see Alfred Habermann using clay to explain how his hammer is used:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=qKLSSnm-inA&feature=channel

And here how to forge a horse head on clay also:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=PhtVYMR5cYI

You are supposed to put the clay in the fridge for a while. I usually use it in the winter... in our hot summer months the fridge thing does not last more than a few minutes.

The video by Brian Brazeal is the best though...

Hope it helps.

Rubén

[Frosty]

Modeling clay is darned common and comes in different stiffnesses. (Is that even a word?) As said, keeping it chilled is good, for a quick chill a bucket of ice and water works really well.

If you're interested in experimenting with pattern welds you can use different colors of Skulpy and after baking it hard, grind or file to reveal the pattern. I THINK Skulpy can be hardened, if not, use one that will harden in the oven.

Frosty the Lucky.

[MattBower]

Thanks, all. We picked up a couple of pounds of firm-feeling oil based modeling clay at Michael's about an hour ago. I've been there many times, but I never noticed the plasticine before.

Frosty, yeah, it's Sculpey you're thinking of. I used it to make a pattern for sandcasting silver a while back. It bakes up pretty hard and holds nice detail.

[thecelticforge]

We use red play dough on Dori's anvil here.

[Marksnagel]

Thanks for the info on the modeling clay. Ted just called me from the other side of the country to explain clay and its uses to a blacksmith. He then put me onto this forum. As soon as I can I will put your input into practice. Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Mark<><

[JimDawdy]

If the clay gets old, you can also make up some lead bar stock fairly easily (probably using the clay for a mold to pour your led into!). She should be able to shape the lead without too much difficulty.

Just be sure to have her wear gloves when handling the lead, and wash thoroughly afterwards.

[Gandalfgreen]

Not sure anyone still paying attention to this but when practicing with clay does size of clay matter? Say I have clay molded into round bars half inch thick or smaller will that make the clay not act the same as when larger mass when hitting with hammer? Just trying to practice and get feel while still setting up and have read that chilled ckay acts like hot steel but wanted to make sure the mass if the clay didnt change that affect 

[George N. M.]

GG; clay is softer than hot metal and stays soft whereas hot metal cools and gets harder the longer it is away from the heat source.  So, clay will deform more if hit with the same force as metal.  If you want to simulate metal with small bits of clay use a very light hammer, say, one with a balsa or styrofoam head.  The similarity between clay and any other soft material (say, lead) is that they deform in a plastic manner under force/a blow, not that they have the same impact resistance as hot steel.  Practice with a softer material can show you how to expect the steel to be shaped under the hammer, not to exactly mimic the final process, e.g. "If I hit it here first it will do this and then I will have to hit it there on the 2d blow and there on the 3d."

Chilling the clay will stiffen it but in small pieces it will warm fairly quickly and you will have the opposite effect as with hot metal.  It will become softer over time.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

What working with clay shows you is the flow of a plastic material. 

It also allows you to see how much "stock" you need to make certain shapes. If you forge a taper out of 2" of 1/2" sq clay it will look the same as forging it out of 2" of 1/2" sq steel, and so it's a fast way to see if 2" or 3" is the better length of steel to use.

With differing colours you can explore pattern welding ideas as well.

[Scalebar]

Copper's nice to forge cold which takes the added complexity of heat out of the hammering side of the process but keeps the fun of heating in the annealing and quenching. I spent a lot of last year melting ebay scrap silver into small pucks and forging out 

[Gandalfgreen]

Thanks fellas appreciate all the info. Exactly what I was looking for. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

I use low alloy aluminum as well. It didn’t work harden as fast as copper. Think low carbon steel vs high as to forge ability.