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Simple hinge design


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Hi, all. Anyone have some basic hinge design ideas for a simple garden gate hinge? It doesn't need to support too much weight as it will be on cedar picket fence. As far as the design goes I'm really looking for basic building concepts and not decorative features of which there are many!

My basic thought is to cut out some blanks using about 2" flat stock. Forge the barrel around 1/4" round. On one section cur out the center of the barrel. On the other, cut the ends. I'd like the pin to be loose so I'll for a head on it.

Also thinking about making bolts for it. If I use 1/4" round stock to make lag nuts would that be too small? I think the next size I have is 3/8". How to you put threads on for a lag screw? I have a basic tap and die set but I would think that is more for machine typ screws.

Anyway, thanks for any input, suggestions and information.

Eric

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Sounds like you are on the right path, I made some hinges using brass, cut them out on a vertical band saw, the brass moved easy so I did not have to make a jig, which is what you might want to roll the barrels, I saw one recently, maybe I can find it and put a link

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I'd go larger than 1/4" for the pin; fist time some kid swings on the gate your 1/4 will be loaded a lot more than you expected!

An even simpler design just has the hinge parts stack---no "cutting out" necessary---also makes it easier to demount the gate by opening it and then just lifting it off the pins.

Buy lag bolts, de-galvanize them if you have to; but remember that rust never sleeps!

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I'd go larger than 1/4" for the pin; fist time some kid swings on the gate your 1/4 will be loaded a lot more than you expected!

An even simpler design just has the hinge parts stack---no "cutting out" necessary---also makes it easier to demount the gate by opening it and then just lifting it off the pins.

Buy lag bolts, de-galvanize them if you have to; but remember that rust never sleeps!



Okay, makes sense. How do I fix the pin in the lower half? Can it be tightly fit with the eye or does it actually have to be welded? If I'm using mild steel I guess I would need to paint it. Is there any other simple finish that would protect it instead of paint?
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I wonder how to "texture" the heads and still be able to grip them to drive into the wood? Lee Valley Tools published some experiments done to compare holding power of wood screw threads with machine threads in wood. If the threads are tapped into the the wood the machine thread performed as well or better than wood screw. But you have to turn them in.

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I wonder how to "texture" the heads and still be able to grip them to drive into the wood? Lee Valley Tools published some experiments done to compare holding power of wood screw threads with machine threads in wood. If the threads are tapped into the the wood the machine thread performed as well or better than wood screw. But you have to turn them in.


If looks and strength are a big concern then I generally will use textured plates and through bolts.You can texture the heads of the bolts and still get a good enough grip on them with pliers(use copper over the jaws)to keep them from turning.Acorn nuts on the ends after you trim them to length finish it off.The plates add beauty and strength,no chance of pulling screws out of the wood.
As far as using machine threads in wood.That`s not what they were designed for,they were designed to be used in either a tapped hole in metal or a metal fastener.
Without a fastener or tapped plate backing them I would consider even the coarser large diameter threads marginal at best when used in a well seasoned hardwood like oak.Remember,water WILL migrate into the tapped hole and that`s where rot will take place.
Don`t even consider using machine screws in softwood.That`s "Askin` for disastah" as they say up heah.
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Any thoughts on how to form the typical "acorn" shape at the end of a strap hinge? Would you start by cutting off some of the corners of the flat bar (3/16" x 2") and then forging to shape or can you just forge it to shape?

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Can't remember which site I was on...with their textured lag bolts they recommended using the "Gator Socket". Its that yuppie one socket fits all with the pins that grab the bolt head. seems like it would work well. Since that socket is grabbing whatever it can to turn your bolt.

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Yes, when you texture the head to be decorative you should pay attention to leave some kind of flats for tightening with a tool. Jkiny mentions "gator socket" and that sounds good if your heat is not to short. Depending on back access I also like Mainly, Bob's way of tightening with a nut from behind. Usually I like to use square nuts as they are "old looking"
Rob

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Any thoughts on how to form the typical "acorn" shape at the end of a strap hinge? Would you start by cutting off some of the corners of the flat bar (3/16" x 2") and then forging to shape or can you just forge it to shape?


This might be of some help:


Latest hinge project

Don
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Standard square headed coach screws/lag bolts, these were used to fix a doorknocker to an old farm cottage.

post-816-030118000 1280347845_thumb.jpg

Just placed in a bolster plate and pattern put in with centre punch and chisel cold

Nod and a wink, Know what I mean post-816-095119300 1280347823_thumb.jpg !!

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Well, here's my first attempt. It started as 3/16 x 2" x 3'. I started by working the neck. I don't have a fuller so worked on the edge on the anvil (if you can call the beat up edges on my anvil that!) and the beak to bring down the neck. I decided to trim the corners off the end using the hot cut. Should have brought them all the way to a point, though. Don A, your thread was really helpful but I didn't see it until after I already started working! I kept tapering the cross section and would smooth out the face on the flat of the anvil. Occasionally I would draw out the thickness on the beak as it was getting quite thick near the edges from making the taper. I spread the front part a bit and also shaped it using the step of the anvil. I used the hot cut to cut off the part from the original stock. That was a chore. I need to get some slitting chisels, I think. Started forming the eye and tried to use 3/8" round stock for size. That wasn't easy though. I don't have any round swage to help refine the shape of barrel so here it is. I either need to open it up a bit or draw down the pin some. Its a tight fit. Overall, just over 7". It needs to be flattened a touch.

It was a chore. Some fullering tools would be a great help. Also, some better tongs for holding the flat stock once it is cut. Oh! Also, my hand truck came in handy for a stock stand for the forge. The long parent stock wouldn't balance in the gas forge, being too long for the stock rest that I have. One of the cross pieces on the hand truck was the perfect height to balance the stock while it was in the forge.

Anyway, thoughts and feedback would be great! Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

Also, how do you plan how much stock you will use?

Eric

post-11216-021255400 1280349689_thumb.jp

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Well, here's my first attempt. It started as 3/16 x 2" x 3'. I started by working the neck. I don't have a fuller so worked on the edge on the anvil (if you can call the beat up edges on my anvil that!) and the beak to bring down the neck. I decided to trim the corners off the end using the hot cut. Should have brought them all the way to a point, though. Don A, your thread was really helpful but I didn't see it until after I already started working! I kept tapering the cross section and would smooth out the face on the flat of the anvil. Occasionally I would draw out the thickness on the beak as it was getting quite thick near the edges from making the taper. I spread the front part a bit and also shaped it using the step of the anvil. I used the hot cut to cut off the part from the original stock. That was a chore. I need to get some slitting chisels, I think. Started forming the eye and tried to use 3/8" round stock for size. That wasn't easy though. I don't have any round swage to help refine the shape of barrel so here it is. I either need to open it up a bit or draw down the pin some. Its a tight fit. Overall, just over 7". It needs to be flattened a touch.

It was a chore. Some fullering tools would be a great help. Also, some better tongs for holding the flat stock once it is cut. Oh! Also, my hand truck came in handy for a stock stand for the forge. The long parent stock wouldn't balance in the gas forge, being too long for the stock rest that I have. One of the cross pieces on the hand truck was the perfect height to balance the stock while it was in the forge.

Anyway, thoughts and feedback would be great! Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

Also, how do you plan how much stock you will use?

Eric


Hi Eric, Good attempt, Looks fine,

If the barrel is tight, don't be afraid to run a drill bit through it just to clean it up and allow the pin to spin

Slitting chisels are fine, but you are better with the hot cut, a little more meat on these to absorb a bit of heat before cooling in use,

Tongs that fit are always a good idea,

Punches for the mounting holes too are a good idea, quicker than drilling and more in keeping with the appearance of the finished item.

Amount of stock you are going to use will depend on your method of how you are going to make them, Stock removal to shape with hot cuts is relatively simple, when you start forging and drawing out thats a whole different proposition, experience helps, but if you try the old plasticene/clay model proceedure that may help you.
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Hi Eric, Good attempt, Looks fine,

If the barrel is tight, don't be afraid to run a drill bit through it just to clean it up and allow the pin to spin

Slitting chisels are fine, but you are better with the hot cut, a little more meat on these to absorb a bit of heat before cooling in use,

Tongs that fit are always a good idea,

Punches for the mounting holes too are a good idea, quicker than drilling and more in keeping with the appearance of the finished item.

Amount of stock you are going to use will depend on your method of how you are going to make them, Stock removal to shape with hot cuts is relatively simple, when you start forging and drawing out thats a whole different proposition, experience helps, but if you try the old plasticene/clay model proceedure that may help you.


John, thanks for your input. I think tomorrow I'll try to make a simple butt section (is that what you call the other half?). If I have the energy I'll go for another strap. I like the idea of clay modeling and think that will be high on my list of things to pick up. The drill bit idea is great. Should I drill to 3/8 or slightly larger? I have some old cold chisels, star drills, etc that I should make some punches out of. The only reason I was thinking of hot cut slitting chisels is that trying to cut to a line would be easier as opposed to using the hot cut hardy. Cutting a straight line on 2" stock was a bit tricky using the hardy.
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Hi Eric, First of all, I am sorry I had a problem with your terminology, when you said "I decided to trim the corners off the end using the hot cut" I assumed it was a hand held tool, (Could be as a chisel, Rodded/wire handled or wood handled), not what I would term a hardie which is used in the hardie hole.

A slitting chisel is a thinner blade that a hot cut chisel which is why I mentioned in the previous response "Slitting chisels are fine, but you are better with the hot cut, a little more meat on these to absorb a bit of heat before cooling in use"

Secondly, the question of the mating parts,

What you have made is what I would term the strap part of a strap hinge, thet hinge can be mounted onto a Pintle which is just a pin for it to swivel on, and the strap part of the hinge can be lowered onto it,

What you are describing is the making of a Butt hinge where the strap fits between and a pin is placed through for the hinge to pivot on. In this case the butt wants to be a close fit to hold the pin in (Which is normally rivetted over to stop it falling out), whilst the strap part pivots. If using a drill on this strap, I would use a clearance size drill to ensure easy movement

On the pintle type of hinge, where the eye is rolled, then I would suggest using a drill of the same size, as when you rolled the eye, I suspect it will only be the centre portion which is tight, an easier alternative would be to use a drift the same diameter as the pintle to drift it to size.

One thing to take into account when forming the rolled eye on a strap type hinge is that the rolled end will not be parallel as the metal collapses in at the centre of the eye, to prevent this, you have to form a convex shape on the eye end, then roll, and this should produce a parallel barrel.


Another picture of hinges from this years North Somerset Show post-816-022742600 1280393011_thumb.jpg

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Can't remember which site I was on...with their textured lag bolts they recommended using the "Gator Socket". Its that yuppie one socket fits all with the pins that grab the bolt head. seems like it would work well. Since that socket is grabbing whatever it can to turn your bolt.


I think Blacksmith's Depot. http://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/Templates/cart_templates/cart-detail.php?theLocation=/Resources/Products/hardware/lag_bolt_black
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John, again thanks for your information. Okay, so hot cut chisel vs. hardy! Got it.

As far as the hinge parts go, I think I am following what you are saying. The last thing you mentioned "One thing to take into account when forming the rolled eye on a strap type hinge is that the rolled end will not be parallel as the metal collapses in at the centre of the eye, to prevent this, you have to form a convex shape on the eye end, then roll, and this should produce a parallel barrel." - does this mean that in the center of the stock where I am going to roll the eye I should forge a convex shape (curving up) parallel to the length of the strap?

Also, would ap and tle be the same as strap and pintle? It's confusing!

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The barrel rolled flat will want to naturally form an hour-glass shape.

As John suggests, simply counter this before it happens.

If FLAT = Hour-glass, then "C" shaped = straight.

This will be a very slight "C" shape, as you look at the end of the stock.

I have a big round bottom swage that I use to dish the stock slightly before I roll it. Ususally a few taps with the pien of the hammer.

I normally put the slight curve in with the front of the strap facing up, then flip it 180 to start the roll.

It seems like they go more evenly if you distribute your turning blows across the width instead of just bearing down in the middle.

It seems like the thicker the stock is, the more problem the hour-glass deformity is. Maybe the thinner stuff is just easier to correct.

If I let one get away from me, I can correct a lot of it my forging with a mandrel (a piece of round stock) inside the barrel.



Also, would ap and tle be the same as strap and pintle? It's confusing!


There seems to be some trouble with the way this board is dealing with itallics and bold. I'd bet that was supposed to be "strap and pintle".
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Don, thanks. When you're looking for the C shape, is it when the hinge is flat as if looking down from above or in the cross section, as if looking at the thickness of the metal? How much length of material do you figure you need to roll the barrel? I drew out the material a little before rolling.

If you don't have a fuller/guillotine whats the best way to form the neck on the strap before the spear point?

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Them gator grip sockets are annoying...until you need one.

For driving a bunch of square headed lag screws I took a hex bolt, chucked it into my drill/driver, then found a 1/2 inch drive socket to fit the hex bolt. If you are going deeper than your fingers can reach a few wraps of tape keeps the socket on the hex bolt. The drive end of the socket fit the lag bolts perfectly, and since I was going into pre-drilled wood I had plenty of torque.

You even gain a little universal action to accommodate misalignment in the drive if needed.

Phil

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John, again thanks for your information. Okay, so hot cut chisel vs. hardy! Got it.

As far as the hinge parts go, I think I am following what you are saying. The last thing you mentioned "One thing to take into account when forming the rolled eye on a strap type hinge is that the rolled end will not be parallel as the metal collapses in at the centre of the eye, to prevent this, you have to form a convex shape on the eye end, then roll, and this should produce a parallel barrel." - does this mean that in the center of the stock where I am going to roll the eye I should forge a convex shape (curving up) parallel to the length of the strap?

Also, would ap and tle be the same as strap and pintle? It's confusing!



Sorry about that, I had to make a hospital appointment and didn't have time to check the post properly, bold and italics seem to be a problem for some reason, anyway I have put that right now I think.

Don A got it right and sorted the collapsing barrel problem nicely for you.

All you have to do now is to apply what you have learnt, Good Luck and happy forging.
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Don, thanks. When you're looking for the C shape, is it when the hinge is flat as if looking down from above or in the cross section, as if looking at the thickness of the metal? How much length of material do you figure you need to roll the barrel? I drew out the material a little before rolling.

If you don't have a fuller/guillotine whats the best way to form the neck on the strap before the spear point?


Hi Eric, Back again, The convex shape is across the width of the strap ie looking from the spear end towards the barrel end the barrel bit should look like a bit like this ( with the high corners being face down on the anvil prior to rolling as the centre collapses forming the hourglass shape.

Before doing this however, chamfer the end to allow it to wrap in tightly and tuck in as the eye is finally formed.

As a rough guide the length of material you need for the eye will be about 4 times the diameter of the pin being used for the hinge. (Unless you are going to double wrap and drift the barrel)


No fuller or guillotine tool, these two were made on the anvil and without the aid of either.


This first one was just formed using the hammer and anvil, if you look carefully you can see the distortion lines as the sides of the taper and the end was formed. You can also see the hourglass effect on the barrel.

post-816-078864500 1280437359_thumb.jpg

This second one was made by using hot cuts (chisels) and you can see the chamfers produced on the edges when using these tools, a not unattractive finish and quick metal removal, easier to calculate for blanks as you are just mostly cutting the profile as opposed to drawing to shape.

post-816-002204700 1280437371_thumb.jpg

These two were made in a live forging competition, 75 minutes to make a hinge and pin, although I think the time allowed was raised to 90 minutes.
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