stuartthesmith2 Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Could someone with experience in forging monel please give a synopsis of this area? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted July 1, 2010 Share Posted July 1, 2010 Use the Search feature here on IFI and type in "Monel forging" - there's a few threads here about Monel. - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted July 8, 2010 Share Posted July 8, 2010 Here you go (quick synopsis): Monel, is hard as XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Really it will test your power forging tools... just a bit TOO MUCH for hand hammering unless in small diameters. Seems it might be softer considering it's ingredients... NOPE! It is used for forming dies because it has long-wearing properties and is extremely resistant to corrosives. The long-wearing properties are derived from great hardness and stiffness... not so good for forge working properties. My Anyang groans if I even TOUCH a bar of that stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'll second that! The oil and gas industry uses it as well. It works good in the corrosive environments found downhole. I managed to score a couple pump shafts of this stuff, and my chopsaw was not very happy when cutting it to useable lengths. If I remember right, there is a good amount of copper in it. Maybe it would make some interesting mokume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Jed, I tried to forge some of that shafting I got from you. Whoa Nelly, that is the worst stuff I ever tried to move by a long shot. Using a 6lb hammer I barely put a flat on it. It just sits on the shelf sneering at me... Maybe someday I will figure a way to coax it into a tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 My $0.02 worth is nice stuff :( Scrap value :rolleyes: That said lots of petrochem aplications so if you have resonable pieces find engeneering works that do petrochem work and try bto swap it out for some of their magnetic s/s some of that is great stuff. Sorry I have no constructive input re forging it.... we strugled for a while then scraped that bit and bartered out the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I have never forge any but I have form it under a brake press and it is tough stuff and has quite a memory. What do you want to make out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Have you tried turning it teeny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 It is used a lot for sculpture. They let it rust and when done creating a surface rust it will not rust any more. One of the famous sculptors, Caldor or someone did a piece for the front wall of a building, seems like it was a museum. They were in a hurry but were told not to hang it until all the rusting was done. They didn't wait and it bled right down the wall. They had to remove it, some how get the rust stain off of the building and then re-hang it. Plus it weighed a ton or more. You'll see more of it fabricated than forged, but even Yellin's shop did gates and the like forged from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 No, what I read led me to believe it is about as much fun on a lathe as under a hammer. Have you turned any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddly Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Nah. My monel is doing the same thing as yours is. -_- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Sorry if I'm thread hijacking, but I have a roughly 1" round x 5"-6" long piece of what I was told is Monel, which was given to me by my father-in-law. He said his father used to make rings out of it. It's probably 70 years old, and it has a black coating that resembles scale. First, does this sound like Monel? Does it oxidize black over time, or with heat? Second, I'm not sure what to do with it. I was thinking of making knife hardware with it, something like that, although it seems like rather expensive material to make hardware from. Anyone have any suggestions? I've never worked with the stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 The stuff Randy was talking about is NOT Monel! Monel NEVER rusts! Randy you are thinking of Cor-Ten steel. Not enough iron in Monel to support rust. It does typically oxidize to a soft brownish black at forging heats and I have found this scale to be EXTREMELY durable. It is not like iron scale that can flake off or rub off... it takes serious abrasion to remove it... MORE than ordinary wear. You can sand it off but otherwise it will persist for many years. The exact content varies with the exact alloy and several variations are made (plus Inconel, Inconoloy, Hastelloy... which are similar alloys). The common Monel 400 alloy has (by percentage of weight) Max .3 Carbon, 28-34 copper, Max. 2.5 iron, Max 2 manganese, Min. 63 nickel, Max. .024 sulfur, Max. .5 silicon. It is ULTRA stainless EXTREMELY chemical resistant and HARD. Often used in food processing where chemical exposure occurs. I have seen soda can dies that were made of it. They also make trolling lines from it for extreme deep water trolling and for wire leaders for very toothy fishes. IMO it would make very durable rings... but tough to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Bigfoot, you're totally right! bigfoot in my mouth. Gottem mixed up. Can I be dyslexic with metals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 What sort of polish does Monel take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 High! Look at all that nickle! Of course if you react to nickle it may not be a good alloy to work with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I don't know if I'm allergic to nickel, but I guess we'll find out. :) Probably not. My wife is allergic to practically everything, it seems, but I lean toward the opposite end of the spectrum -- so far, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 It's okay Randy I do that stuff too. I am sure that you could get Monel to a mirror polish... it may not be easy though. I am attaching a pic of my Monel ice cream scoop. You can see the nice webby patina created by sanding the high areas of texture and this had been in use for a couple of years as of this picture so you can see that it is very durable. At this point this scoop has been through the dishwasher 30 or 40 times and handwashed a couple of hundred times at least... the look is unchanged from the first day as far as I can tell. This thing is HUGE! Maybe 14 inch long handle. It took some pounding to create from about 1" round rod. I LOVE it but I'd never even think about making a business creating these! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Big foot, please tell me you used a power hammer for that thing? If you did it by hand what was your secret (other than spinach) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Dad used to spin lots of Monel, he spun the sphere on top of the Washington State capitol building. It polishes like a mirror and stays shiny. We used to spin it at medium yellow heat, holding torch was one of my jobs before he put me to work spinning. Regardless, it was a bear at yellow heat and imovable at high orange or below. Heck, the old man didn't think of alloys like Monel, Inconel, etc. special or unusual, he spun lots of exotics. What temp are you trying to forge at? Have you tried it at welding heat? No, this isn't welding heat for Monel but it may make it workable. High yellow may be the lowest, unless we're talking multi ton forging hammers. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Yeah I used my 20 pound Anyang and hit as hard as it could to get that thing made! It was yelling nasty stuff at me as I whipped it onward though! The rest of it is waiting for me to build up stronger masochistic tendencies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 What temp are you trying to forge at? Have you tried it at welding heat? No, this isn't welding heat for Monel but it may make it workable. High yellow may be the lowest, unless we're talking multi ton forging hammers. Frosty The Lucky. I started at orange, didn't take me long to figure out that wasn't right. Then I tried Yellow, I will get it even hotter and give it another try I see it melts at 1300c, so I should be able to melt it, then it would move.(ha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Interesting to hear this about Monel. I am taking classes for opticianry, making eyeglasses, and Monel is one of the common alloys frames are made from. The professor told me it was made of nickel and copper, but from being here, I know its nickel and copper, and stuff. Some of the information I have says that dies that can stamp out 50,000 monel frames can only do 500 titanium frames. This stuff sounds almost indestructible. I have read a lot of posts about titanium, it seems to behave beter under the hammer tha monel. I wonder why? Any metallurgists here can expand my knowledge base about why Monel is ... miserable to forge but easy (relatively) die form? Not throwing down a challenge, just trying to see why Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 My first thought was bridle bits, because I knew that a number of bits were made of Monel. I also thought of nickel silver (German silver) which I have cold-worked a little to make sheet jewelry. The nickel silver is also a nickel/copper alloy, but has more copper proportionately than Monel. It also has a small zinc addition. I enjoyed seeing the photos of the Bryn Athyn work that Stewart referenced. I cannot tell y'all how to forge monel, but I always refer to my fascinating "Materials Handbook" when looking for information. There were different alloys of monel, one designed only for sand casting (H Monel). It appears that the metal called K monel is a form of Monel that will age-harden. Nominal composition is 66% nickel, 29 copper, 2.75 aluminum, 0.9 iron; 0.50 silicon, 0.75 manganese, 0.50 titanium, and 0.15 carbon. "The soft alloy, with a hardness of 145 Brinell, will have a hardness above 300 Brinell when heat treated..." R Monel has 0.35 sulfur for cold drawn rods. I assume that K monel would be the choice for forge work. The Handbook says that the " alloy [generic] may be cast, rolled, or forged, and can be annealed after cold working." Reference: "Materials Handbook" by Brady & Clauser. McGraw-Hill, 1977. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason0012 Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I have forged monel 400 a few times. It seemed tough as any other stainless. A bit harder to move than 3xx but not as bad as ATS34/CPM154. Didn't come close to H-13 either. I was working with a 100# Bradley and the 1 1/4 square didn't seem to be a problem for it. The scale is jett black and near impossible to remove, but it does polish well. I have welded some thin stuff into damascus as well. Welding seems a bit touchy but provided you don't let it scale it works about like nickle. The absolute worst material I ever tried to forge was T-16 tool steel. A couple peices found thier way into a barrel of 4130 drops I bought, all 1 1/2 round about 3 inches long. The 100# just bounced off of this stuff! Quite the nasty surprise when I was forging through all that 4130! Work kind of hot and use power, figure like any stainless your hammer will be about half as effective as it would be on a normal steel. Working by hand it would probably be kind of discouraging. In machining it tends to eat up tools too . The special coated carbide tools were developed for this sort of material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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