Vice grips/Mole wrenches

[Sam Thompson]

I think you might be kinda missing the point about them.

I've a reasonable collection of G, bar and carver clamps but I wouldn't be without my mole grips. Amongst the many jobs they are very good for is holding small bolts/ items when trimming them on the bandsaw or belt grinder. What do you suggest would do the job better?

First photo shows some specialized mole grips that almost no other tools can do the job of, access being a big plus

I only started this thread in a 'tongue in cheek' kind of way but I can see that, having invested so much in your collection, you could never bring yourself to admit the mistake

PS Pliers are just as good!

[youngdylan]

I only started this thread in a 'tongue in cheek' kind of way but I can see that, having invested so much in your collection, you could never bring yourself to admit the mistake

PS Pliers are just as good!

I'm kinda of the Larry school ..... it's never a mistake to aquire any (well made) toolB)


Pliers are no where near as good, I've never yet come across a pair that will grip anywhere near as good a good quality moles. The major draw back to pliers is how on earth could you quickly spin them with your wrists as you grind radii/ ball end on the small object being gripped. You'd also have to put more of your focus into the grip than the grinding.

If pliers are good surely pliers that lock are even better. You also get moles with snipe noses.


.... ding dong .... round 4 .....balls in your court.:)

[Sam Thompson]

The pliers allow you to feel if the work is moving and you can reposition it more easily, the tightness of the grip is usually irrelevant as the sharp teeth of a mole grip will damage the surface. The long nosed Mole grips are even worse than the standard variety as the jaws just cross over themselves when you try to round off small nuts.

[Mainely,Bob]

The pliers allow you to feel if the work is moving and you can reposition it more easily, the tightness of the grip is usually irrelevant as the sharp teeth of a mole grip will damage the surface. The long nosed Mole grips are even worse than the standard variety as the jaws just cross over themselves when you try to round off small nuts.

Put copper between the jaws just like you do for soft jaws on your vise.Good grip and no marring.
If you know someone who can exert as much power with pliers as a cranked down pair of Vise-grips I`d like you to point him out,preferably BEFORE I shake hands with him.
The whole point of using a tool to hold something is to keep it from moving isn`t it?If not then just use the tool at the end of your arm.(I`m purposely discounting heat here as we are not talking about tongs.Nobody uses Vise/mole grips as tongs right?)
If you want ease of work adjustment crank them down till you`re past where they lock.Now you have far more holding power than regular pliers but the quickness/ease of a spring release handle.
Try holding a through bolted fastener in the corner on one side of a bulkhead with pliers.Now go to the other side and back out the mating fastener.What? Your pliers fell into the bilge as soon as you turned loose of them?
My vise grips are still in place and holding the hardware just fine.
Don`t like those snipe/needle nose Vise/mole grips cause they bend too much?Use a short nose pair.
Now take those long nose and heat the last 3/4" with a torch and make a 90 degree bend.You now have a set of locking pliers that will reach into places and hold things with more force(and much less tendency to bend)than a pair of high dollar specialty pliers will.

How`m I doin` Cap`n?

[Sam Thompson]

I bet that's just the situation the guy was thinking of when he invented them!

[Marc]

I guess it all depends on what you mean by "very". My punches and chisels are short to use under the treadle hammer and I used to use tongs for those. But with different sizes of shafts, I find the vice grips very good at holding those, instead of different sizes of tongs. I personally rank vice grips up there with Velcro and bungee cords as the most useful simple inventions.

So, to sum up: They're quite good for a few things but not very good at anything.

[youngdylan]

How`m I doin` Cap`n?

Pretty good Bob, pretty good .

I like the bent needle nose idea. I generally don't use them on nuts and bolt's (Stillsons are pretty good for that, 3/4" buzz gun even better) but the point you make about stopping a nut/bolt spinning behind a bulk head is a pretty good one.

As you've probably guessed I'm a big fan of these tools. Most time I use one, I always take great delight in the principle of the over centre locking ... I really must get out more. I do actually remenber a time a few years back when I was out in night club, it had a kinda "industrial retro chic" look and you could see the rivetting on the exposed girders. Friends couldn't understand why I was studying these rather than the women there. Couldn't really explain it to them.

[youngdylan]

The pliers allow you to feel if the work is moving and you can reposition it more easily, the tightness of the grip is usually irrelevant as the sharp teeth of a mole grip will damage the surface. The long nosed Mole grips are even worse than the standard variety as the jaws just cross over themselves when you try to round off small nuts.

I'm kinda assuming you've got a belt grinder or buffing machine Sam, if so, isn't it just great to "feel the work" as the mop/belt picks up on the work in the pliers and launches it across the room ... not the best of feelings :)

[youngdylan]

The pliers allow you to feel if the work is moving and you can reposition it more easily, the tightness of the grip is usually irrelevant as the sharp teeth of a mole grip will damage the surface. The long nosed Mole grips are even worse than the standard variety as the jaws just cross over themselves when you try to round off small nuts.

Can't say that I ever have or am ever likely to try using them with small nuts. I guess the clue is in the name "mole grips"; I don't call them "mole wreches". Just about the one job I never seem to use them for is to replace a spanner. Usual methods for me on stubborn and or rounded fastners are heat/ stillsons/ buzz gun/blunt cold chisel amongst others. Never used them to replace tongs, tongs do a pretty good job. Often use them to hold finger slicing pieces of sheet metal when using a drill press.

[Mainely,Bob]

Funny how the same thing can be called by several different names depending on where on the globe you`re standing.
In Texas it`s a crescent wrench,Maine it`s a wescott,apparently in The Cap`n`s neck of the woods it`s called a stillson and my buddy Howie from NZ calls it a shifting spanner.

When folks from down south were hired into the Iron Works here in Maine the hands that ran the tool cribs used to play the "what`s it for" game.A new hire would ask for something and the cribbie`d hand them whatever they thought might be close if they didn`t recognize the name the new hire had said.
There would be a puzzled look from the newbie and the tool crib guy would take the tool back and ask "what`s is for?".
Sometimes these exchanges could be very entertaining.

[youngdylan]

When folks from down south were hired into the Iron Works here in Maine the hands that ran the tool cribs used to play the "what`s it for" game.A new hire would ask for something and the cribbie`d hand them whatever they thought might be close if they didn`t recognize the name the new hire had said.
There would be a puzzled look from the newbie and the tool crib guy would take the tool back and ask "what`s is for?".
Sometimes these exchanges could be very entertaining.

tool crib? that'll be the realm of the long stand, sky hook, left handed screwdiver, tartan paint ......

[Mainely,Bob]

tool crib? that'll be the realm of the long stand, sky hook, left handed screwdiver, tartan paint ......

Sounds like you`ve spent some time waiting on those "crib lines".
Unfortunately the biggest hurdle you have to jump when dealing with the tool crib is the hammerhead behind the window. <_<

[monstermetal]

Funny how the same thing can be called by several different names depending on where on the globe you`re standing.
In Texas it`s a crescent wrench,Maine it`s a wescott,apparently in The Cap`n`s neck of the woods it`s called a stillson and my buddy Howie from NZ calls it a shifting spanner.

Redneck speed wrench.... Or simply "The Rounder"

[monstermetal]

The pliers allow you to feel if the work is moving and you can reposition it more easily, the tightness of the grip is usually irrelevant as the sharp teeth of a mole grip will damage the surface. The long nosed Mole grips are even worse than the standard variety as the jaws just cross over themselves when you try to round off small nuts.

It sounds to me that you should stick with your pliers.. Your position is pliers work better is obviously true for you...

Of course they work better, for some things.. Thats like saying Why use a cross pein? A rounding hammer is better... Well ok yes it is for some things Or why use a sledge hammer? My rounding hammer is all I need!! Why use a striker? I can do it all with my rounding hammer! Does everything I need!

(what do you do? Well I stand at a bench and bevel 3/8" stock by the ton for the master)



Its very plain to me...

[nuge]

When starting out I modified some of the "pipe wrench" style vice grips into work holding devices (tongs). Just welded some angle iron to the jaws. Worked so well for me that it was a very long time before I used anything else. Had a pair of wolf jaw tongs my Grandma got me to fish stuff out of the gasser as well.

[Dillon Sculpture]

I'm not sure how to add the link but heres the story behind the tool. http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/machines_12.html

[youngdylan]

I'm not sure how to add the link but heres the story behind the tool. http://www.livinghis...achines_12.html

Thanks for that danger ...... if they're good enough for the aircraft industry, they're good enough for me

[Sam Thompson]

I'm not sure how to add the link but heres the story behind the tool. http://www.livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/machines_12.html

I notice they were used in the building of liberty ships, the early examples of those were notorious for falling apart!

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I notice they were used in the building of liberty ships, the early examples of those were notorious for falling apart!

Early examples of which? Vise-grips or Liberty ships?

OBTW: I wouldn't be without them (vise-grips that is).

[ThomasPowers]

The Liberty Ships were welded together rather than riveted and they had some problems with the new technology at first. The one that I studied in school that fell apart in a harbour during calm seas was a special example---it was 50 below zero (degF) and cold embrittlement was a major factor.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

A Wiki:

Early Liberty ships suffered hull and deck cracks, and a few were lost to such structural defects. During World War II, there were nearly 1,500 instances of significant brittle fractures. Twelve ships, including three of the 2,710 Liberties built, broke in half without warning, including the SS John P. Gaines,[5][6] which sank on 24 November 1943 with the loss of 10 lives. Suspicion fell on the shipyards which had often used inexperienced workers and new welding techniques to produce large numbers of ships in great haste. Constance Tipper of Cambridge University demonstrated that the fractures were not initiated by welding, but instead by the grade of steel used which suffered from embrittlement.[7] She discovered that the ships in the North Atlantic were exposed to temperatures that could fall below a critical point when the mechanism of failure changed from ductile to brittle, and thus the hull could fracture relatively easily. The predominantly welded (as opposed to riveted) hull construction then allowed cracks to run for large distances unimpeded. One common type of crack nucleated at the square corner of a hatch which coincided with a welded seam, both the corner and the weld acting as stress concentrators. Furthermore, the ships were frequently grossly overloaded and some of the problems occurred during or after severe storms at sea that would have placed any ship at risk. Various reinforcements were applied to the Liberty ships to arrest the crack problems, and the successor design, the Victory ship, was stronger and less stiff to better deal with fatigue.

[Fosterob]

Were some liberty ships made in Vancouver Wa.?
Rob

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

In the United States, in January 1942, there occurred a sudden need for additional shipyards for the construction of major types of ships to meet an increase of one-third in the previous objectives. One of these new yards was set up by the Kaiser group at Vancouver, across the Columbia River from Portland, Oregon, and in the following month the decision was taken to increase the original plans to a total of twelve slipways.

The yard was constructed on land owned by the local ports authority; it was leased at the nominal fee of $300 per year, and the final terms of leasing required the premises to be restored to 'as good a condition as before.'

In mid-1942, with the yard itself still under construction, the first ship on the stocks and the local labor supply almost exhausted, a big recruiting drive was directed not only to the mid-West and to the mountain states, but even to places as distant as New York. The subsequent influx of personnel tended, at first, to outstrip the available facilities and one service the commission was forced to provide was a private railway to carry workers to the shipyard.

The yard was awarded a large contract for Liberty ships, but soon this was changed to one for military types. More than a hundred Liberty contracts were cancelled and this gave a large surplus of Liberty material, which was transferred to the Oregon shipyard. Nevertheless, included in the yard's facilities was a 'deckhouse' slip, situated between the slipways and the outfitting dock. Thus, while in transit between these two points, ships would pause to have previously completed 210-ton deckhouses installed. The deckhouses were complete, even to the installation of the funnel, before they emerged for fitting. This system, in fact, set another trend in assembly line methods, but was of no real importance to the Liberty program, being mainly used on military constructions. It also gained unfavorable publicity when, in October 1942, the first deckhouse assembly was accidentally dropped twenty feet onto a waiting hull!

The first of the military types (LSTs), were ordered in May 1942 and for these new buildings the yard ceased work on Libertys after launching and completing only two and clearing away two more that were only half-built. Immediately afterwards fifty escort carriers were ordered, yard facilities were again improved and it became one of the best emergency yards in both its equipment and its layout.

In early 1943 the yard was able to revert to Liberty building long enough to construct eight more vessels, but with these ships the propelling machinery was installed at Portland by the Oregon Shipbuilding Corporation. Later still the yard turned its production to military transports.

After the war the leasing arrangements were revised and the yard became one of the Maritime Commission's four stand-by yards for use in future emergencies. In 1960 it was sold to the Gilmore Steel Corporation for some $3 million.

[thingmaker3]

Hey Sam! Thanks for starting this thread. All these interesting replies have talked me into getting some more of these spiffy locking pliers! After browsing through some of the locking plier patents at the USPTO website, I might even try to make some of my own. Never could've happened without ye, Sam! :lol:

[Fosterob]

Wow Grant , that sounds like you have some knowledge on those shipyards among everything else you know, did you work there at some point? It must have been a booming place in it's heyday. Vice grips are one of the more useful tools in my shop.
Rob