Would this work

[don't tread on me]

Ok last night I got this idea, take the design for the body of a 100 lb little gaint power hammer pore it in aluminum and reinforce it with rebar. Do you think this would work using a 25 lb hammer head. If you do and have a 100 lb little gaint send me a pic.

[Mainely,Bob]

The answer is yes and no.
Yes it would work as yard art.
No,it will not work as a power hammer.
There`s a reason power hammers of all sizes(to include planishing hammers)are not made of things like aluminum.If you have to ask why then you need to do some research into the structural and vibration dampening properties of materials as well as things like metal fatigue,stress cracking,work hardening,ductility,resistance to deformation and other things related to long term strength and rigidity.
Take a look at how a power hammer handles cold working aluminum in one of the you-tube videos(a few use cold aluminum plate as demo material) and tell me how long you think an aluminum frame would last.Even one with re-bar cast into it.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Well Bob, I gotta disagree with ya on this one. Given the huge sections in the old castings and the fact that aluminum is every bit as strong as cast iron, I don't see any problem at all. Although aluminum casting generally cost more than cast iron. Even the anvil would probably be OK because the originals were hollow. Solid aluminum would probably be heavy enough. How many of you knew that aluminum weighs the same as concrete? Heck, I'd make a hundred pound hammer out of it.

[JNewman]

While it would work I am not sure WHY you would do it unless you have the capability of pouring 1000lb of aluminum in one shot and do not have the capability to do it in iron. If you tried pouring it in small pours you would have cold shuts between each pour and it would have no strength. If you are going to send out your pattern to a foundry an iron casting is going to be cheaper as well as being stronger. You then have all the bearing caps, flywheel, shaft, ram, guides and arms to fabricate or cast as well as all the machining.

However you could buy a rebuilt Little Giant hammer for less than what the frame pattern is worth.

[MattBower]

I defer 100% to Grant on this. But DTOM, what's the practical significance of the question? How do you plan to cast that much aluminum in one go? (I won't ask where you plan to get it, since getting that much aluminum for free would be feasible, given enough patience and hustle.)

[MattBower]

So, Grant: aluminum fly press frame?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Given the poor casting from Little Giant, I believe it would work fine, but there is no good reason as pointed out. Ductile might be a good way to go. Press frame? Could be done, but same thing, why?

[MattBower]

Press frame? Could be done, but same thing, why?

Oops, you noticed that? :P

[ThomasPowers]

Lots of things will work and only cost several times what buying a good one would. If you have excess cash to throw around I have this bridge on the east coast I'd be willing to sell you, make you a special deal....


I'd suggest going to the local public library if you live in the USA and ILL the book "Pounding out the Profits" and see just how *many* ways hammers were build---wood, pipe, cast iron---lots of ways it was done. You know if you live by a coast it may be cheaper to have a thick slab of steel cut into the C frame for a hammer than to cast an Al one...

[Mainely,Bob]

Well Bob, I gotta disagree with ya on this one. Given the huge sections in the old castings and the fact that aluminum is every bit as strong as cast iron, I don't see any problem at all. Although aluminum casting generally cost more than cast iron. Even the anvil would probably be OK because the originals were hollow. Solid aluminum would probably be heavy enough. How many of you knew that aluminum weighs the same as concrete? Heck, I'd make a hundred pound hammer out of it.

OK,now you got me going here(in a good way).
Are you saying that an aluminum framed LG would be a viable idea?
My reasoning stemmed from my experiences with both WWing machines and metalworking machines such as presses and other production machines made with aluminum frames welded up from plate or extruded beams and channels.
What we found was that in order to make the machines rigid enough we had to add a lot of extra reinforcement.Even with the extra reinforcement we ended up chasing stress cracks.
These type of problems also showed up in aluminum fishing boats and it`s been my experience that rolled and extruded aluminum is usually harder and tougher than cast of the same alloy.
I also can`t get my mind around how the anvil base and guide portions would not deform,crack or pull threads under hard use.
So what am I missing?

BTW-For high vibration machines concrete was one of the materials we used to make pedestals and the main bodies for heavy machines.Once cured it was very stable and had excellent damping qualities.Tough to repair when it broke though.

[don't tread on me]

My dad is an electrician and trenches in the wire and pipe for pivots.

[jason0012]

I have considered this myself. I think it would far far cheaper and produce a far better machine to use burn outs of heavy plate. To function without developing serious fatigue issues an aluminum frame would have to be 3-4+ times the cross section of one in iron. So a 100# frame for a 25# sounds right. The question is, why not just buy an old 25 ? Before spending over 1000 hrs making the patterns, furnace flasks and handleing equip for pouring 3/4 ton aluminum castings I am pretty sure you could scrounge enough $ to buy some old LG. In fact, you could probably buy one with the money you could get scrapping that aluminum!

[freemab]

Well Bob, I gotta disagree with ya on this one. Given the huge sections in the old castings and the fact that aluminum is every bit as strong as cast iron, I don't see any problem at all. Although aluminum casting generally cost more than cast iron. Even the anvil would probably be OK because the originals were hollow. Solid aluminum would probably be heavy enough. How many of you knew that aluminum weighs the same as concrete? Heck, I'd make a hundred pound hammer out of it.

Grant -
I'm no expert on the subject, but I did a little reading on it a year or two back. It seems that certain materials, notably including cast iron, provide exceptional vibration damping. This, for example, is why a cast iron anvil doesn't ring. Cast iron is not the only material with this property, but it probably is the heaviest, cheapest material, which is why it is used in so many machines. Steel and aluminum, even though strong, just don't compare.
Looking further into this, it seems that it is the inhomogeneity of the cast iron that is responsible for the vibration damping. Essentially, the stuff just can't pass vibrations because of all the solid-solid interfaces within it. Cement is likewise vibration damping, but generally too brittle for use as a machine frame. I wondered whether stressed concrete might be usable for machines, but the limited research I did on the subject suggested it was not in the same league as cast iron.
Fact of the matter, is that possibly the best simulation of cast iron would be a bolted assembly of steel plates. It would have the same heft, and if constructed properly would damp vibrations fairly well. This only makes sense, however, if steel plates and fabrication would cost less than casting an iron machine frame. And that I doubt.
Bruce
NJ