ironstein Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 I found this power team 55 series pump at the swapmeet for $70. I use them at work to stress post tension cables so i know they are heavy duty. I use them with a dual piston ram and stress cables to over 3,000 psi. It puts out 55cu inch per minute. The rams we use to stress are super powerful and will snap the cables if you don't watch the pressure guage. I plan on constructing a super heavy duty frame out of 3/8 wall angle iron, but i am wondering if anyone can recommend a cylinder size, and a starting point for hose sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 I forgot to mention that this pump is adjustable from 1,000 to 10,000 psi. you can set it to shut down at a certain psi range so you don't blow things up. Maybe i'm missing some thing but i figured this would be a great pump for a hydraulic press. When we stress cables at work, the rams move pretty darn fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 I posted a response over on the "followed me home" thread for you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 I have several (like 40 or so) enerpac and like like 10,000PSI cylinders.... I have like 5 14" stroke 30 ton units, Id sell you one for a couple hundred bucks if you would like... Its about speed though... Nothing you do with that pump will be as fast as I would want to forge with, but you can still do a heck of a lot of work with one. I have a 30 ton C frame with a pump just like that and I do all kinds of things with it.... And 70 bucks was a gift. a pump like that cost $2000-$3000 new and would fetch $500-$1000 used pretty easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Larry, I sent you an email. I am definitely interested in one of those cylinders. I'd like to see your h-frame press if you've got a picture. Do you think i could squish damascus with this pump and cylinder? Thanks for your expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 2, 2010 Share Posted May 2, 2010 You need to do some math to figure out what size cylinder you need for your intended purpose. The flow that you mentioned is at what pressure? Usually the higher the pressure the lower the flow. Figure out what pressure/flow that you want to run at, then size the cylinder by figuring out the CID of the cylinder. A 4" diameter cylinder will move slower than a 1" diameter cylinder due to the larger displacement. On the other hand the 4" cylinder will deliver more pressure than the 1" one will at the same input pressure due to the larger surface area of the piston. It all gets down to surface area, and displacement in order to figure out what speed you can run at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 2, 2010 Author Share Posted May 2, 2010 Doc, The pump can be set from 1,000 to 10,000. Thats why Larry recommended the 10,000 psi cylinders by enerpac. I use these pumps with dual cylinder rams to stress post tension cables in concrete, and the ram moves pretty quick with no load on it. From what i have read, since they are such high pressure they don't lose much power under load. Of course i am going to use this equipment to do stuff it wasn't intended to do. They are designed for lifting and pulling. Jacks mostly, for construction. a two inch cylinder bore with 10,000 psi would yield 15.7 tons of force. I'm just not sure how quickly this will work in a press. If it deosn't work well with hot work, it will make a nice cold bender. When i stress cables with these machines, they are serious equipment. They will destroy anything in their path if you're not careful! I got the pump super cheap, thats why i am contemplating using it for a press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I have several (like 40 or so) enerpac and like like 10,000PSI cylinders.... I have like 5 14" stroke 30 ton units, Id sell you one for a couple hundred bucks if you would like... Its about speed though... Nothing you do with that pump will be as fast as I would want to forge with, but you can still do a heck of a lot of work with one. I have a 30 ton C frame with a pump just like that and I do all kinds of things with it.... And 70 bucks was a gift. a pump like that cost $2000-$3000 new and would fetch $500-$1000 used pretty easy Larry I also sent you a email and would be interested in a cylinder if you would want to sell one more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 I understand that the pump pressure can be varied, but that usually changes the flow rates too, unless all you are doing is adjusting the pop off valve. Some pumps vary the pressure/volume by varying the stroke of the pump. Either way, some math will tell you exactly what you will get out of it with different cylinders in terms of speed, and tonnage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted May 3, 2010 Share Posted May 3, 2010 If your pump flow does vary with the set pump pressure..... for the first pass, I would recommend figuring out what pressure (mapped against the size of the cylinder) will yield around 20 tons of pressure. If I recall correctly, Jim Batson's instructions for building presses target that pressure and should be very useful for general use. If, for some of your projects you want more pressure, you can always adjust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 The pump flow does vary with pressure. 700 cu in per min at 0, 74 cu in per min at 5,000, and 56 cu in per min at 10,000 psi. Sounds like once it loads up it slows way down. The pressure is adjustable, and it has a bypass to keep cycling while under pressure. This will be an interesting experiment. Talked to Larry (Monstermetal) and i am gonna buy a 30 ton cylinder with 14" inch stroke. The pump is designed to run with a gauge, and it has the quick couple fittings for a double acting cylinder and a gauge. Utilizing the gauge i will be able to figure out the tonnage at certain psi ranges once i know the bore of the cylinder. Another cool feature is that these pumps will hold pressure even when turned off. Could make a pretty stout vise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 3, 2010 Author Share Posted May 3, 2010 oh, and there is an adjustable pressure regulating valve and a pressure switch. So you have to set the pressure switch a bit higher than the valve so the machine doesn't shut down before you reach the target pressure. Seems pretty adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted May 4, 2010 Share Posted May 4, 2010 Sounds like a great pump to have. The one I use is a 3-stage pump, with the final flow being 60 cubic inches per minute (at 10K PSI). You have seen what I do with it. I am interested to see what you will do with yours.... Higher speed would be nice (at final pressures) I'm sure, but a lot can be accomplished at the lower flow rates also... Good Luck with yours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 Thanks Dave. I'm looking forward to this build. I am still trying to decide on c-frame, or h-frame. I'm thinking h-frame would be easier for me to build with materials on hand, but it seems that a c-frame would work better in a smaller space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I have basically the same set up, use it to cold bend all the time. I like the front being open on the C not much to it. My only complaint is that the work area is low but I can set it on its side or lift it up on something as I have done here. I have a bottom table for the quick bend and a two pin carriage that bolts to the front for pushing long bends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted May 5, 2010 Share Posted May 5, 2010 I have basically the same set up, use it to cold bend all the time. I like the front being open on the C not much to it. My only complaint is that the work area is low but I can set it on its side or lift it up on something as I have done here. I have a bottom table for the quick bend and a two pin carriage that bolts to the front for pushing long bends. Interesting set up. Gives me some food for thought. I have been working on a H frame set up but why not a C frame also and quick change cylinders from one to the other. Thanks! Can you explain the function of the bracketry on the top and how it works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Nice set up. How fast is that cylinder? Just curious about smooshing damascus with it. Looks like an enerpac pump. Mines a power team, designed for post tensioning (stressing) concrete tendons. I have been going back and forth on a c- frame or H-frame as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 6, 2010 Share Posted May 6, 2010 I think its really to sloooow to forge under, but you can bend cold or hot all day long depending how far apart your dies are. I have radius 5" 3/8" wall pipe, 5/8" x 8" hard way and 2" square cold under this machine. You could set it up to punch, shear, rivet.... whatever. We have frankenstiend this thing so many times, the flip out cylinder was to change dies? You got a great deal on the unit but, I have to tell, my score was $200 complete set up :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 Well you scored! Thats a heck of a deal. The pump you are using looks a bit different than mine though. we will see how well it can be used for forging. If it is too slow i will have something for bending or punching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 7, 2010 Author Share Posted May 7, 2010 By the way Michael, i believe the pump you are using is air-hydraulic two stage. In the second stage the flow drops to 9 cu/in a minute. I could be wrong. The flow rates might be very similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 Well, i received my hydraulic cylinder today! Thanks Larry! I really appreciate all the help you've provided. I have the frame all fabbed up so i just need to attach the cylinder, and weld up the shelf. My hydraulic hoses and fittings should be here friday. I ordered high flow 3/8 i.d. hoses and fittings. I will post pictures when I get her up and running. I went with a top push c-frame design out of 3/8 angle iron. I welded two pieces together with 1/2 inch plate spacers. It weighs close to three hundred pounds and is seven feet tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted May 16, 2010 Author Share Posted May 16, 2010 The monster masher is done! I just need to make some dies tomorrow. Everything works great, i crushed a few pieces of square tube, it packs a punch. I'm gonna make some dies tomorrow and weld up some damascus. I will take some more pictures when i make some dies, and show how this beast crushes steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Nice job.... Looks like its ready to work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Looks like your on your way! One thing I would change is to make the table much wider and beef it up, you can bend much larger sections moving your dies further apart. Also If you study mine, the table is very stout and very close to the bottom of the stroke, lots of room for all kinds of different dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Nice clean build I would second the motion by Dange Dillon, make the table stronger that thing is gonna take a ton of abuse (well several tons of abuse) I am trying to sneak off to the flea market today see what I can find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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