Attempting different types of forge welds

[divermike]

Ok, so while reading many of the available books on blacksmithing, they list the various types of welds you should be able to master. So far I'm pretty confidant on most of them, lap, corner, faggot etc. So today I wanted to try 2 I have not done yet, a "T" weld and a jump weld. The "T" weld went off without a hitch, but the jump weld just was not going to cooperate. So I will try again another day. The fact is it could have been any of a multitude of reasons, such as, dirty fire, no flux, dissimiliar metals and so on. My forgemaster spoke to the fact that it was not hot enough, yet when I got it hot enough to burn, well you know how that goes. I remember watching the guys at quad state try to weld the plate on the anvil, to the crowd it seemed clear that there was not enough heat, but when you are close to the fire, it does not appear to be the case. If any of you have actually done a jump weld, it's clear that the shape is important, the dome should fit the depression, and both pieces have to be hot enough to stick, but fate conspired against me to day, no worries, it was a good exercise, and I will master it!!

[Tom Lumpkins]

Pure Determination,, Sounds like your on track Mike. Thanks for sharing your day and thoughts with us..

[thecelticforge]

Funny you should bring this up. I was doing jump welds yesterday. The first 3 went off without a hitch, the #4 gave me trouble, even though it was from the same bar. Two attempts later: I finally had to cool the metal down, put it in my vise, and polish all the unions to a mirror finish, flux, and re-weld before it took.
To be honest, I think that it truly may be a matter of holding my mouth right. However, I have found with proper prep, all my welds take, Without proper prep, some welds won't take. This is my humble opinion on why most welds fail.

[Alec.S]

I am a beginner at forge welding....(compered to you guys)...But the other day i started something.... an idea to practice....What i did was get a scrap 8 inch piece of 6mm and i folded it over and forge welded it with the normal processes in between(wire brush at red heat then flux) i kept folding and forge welding then i got another scrap piece of 6 mm bailed the two together then forge welded them.......what i will continue with today is just adding more stuff and the forge welding then folding and so forth...
i wonder how big my "billet" will get!
then when i feel like it i will cut it up in to little pieces and that way i can see how the welds were...
For other beginners at the subject like myself i would advise doing this exercise......
My two pennys

alec

[divermike]

When I first started this art, I read all the books I could get my hands on, but many of the techniques seemed beyond my ability, now, some years later, I thought it would be a good idea to revisit some of those books, and go through the projects, to ascertain whether or not I am able to accomplish them. It's a real eye opener, I have spoiled myself by doing whatever I want, and allowing my skills to progress through trial and error on my hand picked projects. But now, if I want to put myself in what I call the journeyman catagory, I feel I need to be able to do many of the "practical" projects, and not struggle. This has led to some interesting conclusions.
First and foremost, I am not yet a journeyman! Yet I have the abilities to do many of these projects, and it is time in the forge that is the difference. I no longer fear attempting, rather I expect to succeed, and when I don't, I at least know what to do to get beyond the failure. It seems silly, but I believe this is a needed step in my education. Go back and make a clevis, etc.. and really my biggest weakness is attention span. I get bored easily, when I accomplish the difficult, it is the mundane that stops me. Grinding, filing and finishing. Maybe that's why the apprentice was so important. You could get the hard stuff done, then let the boy do the rest. You had paid your own dues. I have 3 projects I have forged and not finished, due to this mental block. Well that's my rambling thought on a sunday morning, if you have gone through this, or are thinking along these lines, respond please.

[Mainely,Bob]

Maybe it comes from having worked in yacht yards but I have a bit different mind set.
As you say,the "practical" end of things is the hard work and making something that is useful and functions well is really the jump off point for anything else.
Once I get the functional part down I look at the object and think of how I can project some of my personality into it(granted the initial design is where this really is brought forward on custom work).I look at the finishing aspect as an opportunity to try textures and embellishments as well as finishes that will set my work apart from the rest.Attention to detail and quality of finish ,in my mind,are simple things that define the line between art and utility and keep the customer coming back for that unique,hand crafted part he can`t get anywhere else.
A local example would be the common"float irons" that tied floating docks to ramp,piers and each other.The local fishermen and marinas bought what ever was reasonably durable and cheap.After all they all looked the same right?
Once I started to think of them as decorative ironwork and added choices like embellishments and different materials than hot rolled steel those folks who went all out making their boats and homes look good caught on to the idea of making the float or pier they were tied to just as nice.I still make custom made float irons from time to time for 4+ times the money of standard sets.I let someone else make the common variety.

The utility sells the piece,the details set the price.
For me this has been the motivation to carry it one step further in the fit and finish department.
Telling a customer about quality and worksmanship is one thing.Giving them a piece where they and their friends/neighbors can readily see those things and are reminded of them every day is what makes the difference.

PS-I think you also may have it backwards Mike.The apprentice did the grunt work and then handed it off to the journeyman for the final finesse and the fit and finish which is what established the shop`s standing in the community and maintained the shop owner`s reputation.

[beth]

alec - im a beginner at forge welding too - sounds like your having some level of success though - nice one :)

[John B]

Hi Beth, and Alec, So are we going to see you at Westpoint on the 15th May for the forge welding masterclass, and on the 16th so you can try taking it further?

Instructor is a current National Champion 'smith and he learnt on our courses. Places still available.

[Alec.S]

Beth- today i had very little luck at it.....maybe it was beginners luck at first.......
John- No...i won't be able to.....reasons will be explained later.....mostly due to distance, school and so forth.......If i could i would...

... alec

[fat pete]

I am not sure what a jump weld is... I am aware of all the scarfs that you must make and this sounds like one I have done to put a square and a round together...the joint kinda looks like you fit your two thumbs together....kinda a lump with a divot ..... i have used his with drop the tongs welds