Trenton List

[ThomasPowers]

Picture of the underside of the base?  Without the serial number that would be most likely to date it,  I'm guessing it is an imported one and so dating to those early years.

Caplet depression indicate the "more recent" ones as made in Columbus Ohio.

[Yanni Rockitz]

On 7/16/2021 at 3:40 PM, ThomasPowers said:

Picture of the underside of the base? ...Caplet depression indicate the "more recent" ones as made in Columbus Ohio.

Additional pics attached -- it's actually not hollowed out on the bottom at all, with the exception of a square hardie-type lifting point(?) hole. Appears pretty much flat and rough. I also took pics of the two 'ends' of the feet where that Peter Wright-style 'step' is forged onto the feet where the weight and serial numbers are usually found on American-made Trentons. No numbers there at all -- on either foot. Does this mean I have a German production early-school unit? What years were those made? (That's pretty cool, methinks.) What about thoughts on the curvy face -- will it be a problem?

[ThomasPowers]

Yup it's an early one.  I don't have AinA at work and no internet at home so hopefully someone else can give the date info.

BTW that's a "handling hole" in the base to help them maneuver it around using specialized "tongs" during manufacturing.

Smooth face is more important than flat for most smithing. I'd use that one with no problem doing the stuff I do.  Much better to use as is than possibly do MAJOR DAMAGE trying to make it flat!!!!!

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

AinA pg 357 talks about Trenton imports and if I’m understanding it correctly your anvil is a Peter Wright design. The age is 1878-1898 after that everything changed. 

[Yanni Rockitz]

TPowers and TwistyWillow -- you're officially my heroes -- thanks for the info! So great to have good people out there who just help a fella out like this. I'm thrilled to know I've got a really old, fairly rare and unique anvil in such relatively good condition. As I understand Trenton manufacturing history, now -- so far -- Trenton is an American brand from Ohio, but some of their earliest anvils, way back in this 1878-1898 timespan, were actually manufactured over in Europe -- I've read Germany(?) -- and maybe the UK(?) -- and these are identifiable by the flat / non-hollowed-out base, as well as the absence of any kind of lettering / numbering on the feet, which was started when they began to make them in the US. Why were they farming out the manufacturing to Europe, if it was an American company? Same reason we do that with China today? Like, maybe it was cheaper then, where Europe was all set up for it and we were still young and relatively underdeveloped here, in terms of infrastructure? It's such an odd phase in Trenton history... It's interesting to see how they copied the 'stepped feet' design element of the Peter Wrights, clearly trying to benefit from that popular brand's success. My inner anvil nerd is all excited over the fact that the youngest this anvil could be is 123 years old (1898) -- and just might be as old as 143. Wow... A real piece of living history. These things are such time travelers... The wear on the face could only have shaped it that way through many hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of hammering -- and now I have the honor of picking up the torch and taking my turn on a tool that has seen a huge amount of human creative effort over more than a century. You've made my month.  :-)

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

That same page talks about German imports also, but the German ones do not have the handling hole under the horn. That’s why I think yours is the Peter Wright design. 

[ThomasPowers]

Anvils don't qualify as "really old" till they get past the 200 year mark and the designs subtly shift.  They wear like iron so many smiths are working on 150 year old anvils.

Not extremely rare or unique as their price does not go up for that; some folks actually prefer more recent ones due to changes in the metallurgy.

What you have is a proud piece of tooling that *generations* have used to support their families. Doing a proud days work for a good wage!  "Rare & Unique" are antique dealers terms trying to raise the price for things that are generally NOT "rare & unique".   (I often see these terms used nowadays for things sold in the 1897 Sears Roebuck catalog as their cheapest quality level...)

What you need to do; is to do good work with that anvil and extend the proud tale of it's years!

(A lot more stuff was imported 100+ years ago than many people realize. Sheffield blades were shipped by the barrelful to the US to be hilted by local cutlers back in the 1820's & 30's for example.)

[Yanni Rockitz]

I love the history. Interesting perspective on "old" -- so it's not officially old until its 200th birthday?!? Jeeze, man -- rough crowd. And there I was, thinking I was in some elite club of artifact owners  ;-)  The world of anvils is on a whole other scale.

I fully agree about the relative emptiness of the terms "rare" and "unique" -- at least when used by sellers as buzzwords. I described this Trenton that way mainly in relation to my own personal search for a decent anvil for a good price, which has been a challenge. From my experience, if you have $800, or more, you can find a nice anvil, these days, barring the odd unicorn found digging up the garden. I already had a little old 80lb no-name anvil with a good face, so I told myself I would cap my "real anvil" budget at $400 -- more out of principal than anything else. This search has gone on for several years now, without success, then I found this one -- and the guy threw in several chisels and two nice pairs of tongs and a wooden base, so I felt like it was money well spent. One fine day, I'm going to get a huge double-horned beast, but this old girl should hold me till then. Thanks again!

[ThomasPowers]

It is an odd craft where there may be more people using 100 year old tools than those using strictly new ones.  I use my badly abused 1828 William Foster at least once a year just so it feels it is still an anvil.  (Yes, I'm weird; or to quote the Goon Show: "I talk to the trees---that's why they put me away!")

My oldest styled anvil was made for me based on one in the Roman Museum in Bath England. Luckily that style has been in use close to 3000 years so it can pinch hit for my Y1K demo kit.   (The book on the Mastermyr Find, provides a lot of good examples of tools to go with that kit.)

[reprosser]

Just aquired my first anvil - Trenton 150 serial 129303 which I think means - made in 1914. It also has WTC 1914 on the side (not sure what that means) Picked up at estate sale. Was rusty, but lightly used sitting in barn. It has what looks like an "H" stamped on the shelf near the horn. Anyone know why that might be? I used wire brush to clean up, and she looks ready to go to work. A nice upgrade to the piece of fork off a forklift I have been using.

[Yanni Rockitz]

"WTC" has to be the initials of the world renowned Blacksmith Woolard T. Carrington, of Boston -- famed Smith of the Commonwealth! Just kidding - I have no idea what it means, but it does look kind of hand-stamped, like someone did it post-factory -- maybe a former owner. Nifty historical value there -- maybe investigate who owned it in the estate you bought it from -- perhaps there's a great grandpappy with those initials. She's a right purdy anvil -- good score! I'm jealous of how smooth and flat and pristine the face of yours is. You should add a photo of the underside -- the shape of the cavity (or lack thereof, in my case) is one of the identifying characteristics. The numbers will likely get you to a positive ID -- you just need one of the guys in here who owns Anvils In America to look up the Trentons and see what your numbers mean.

P.S. - the "H" is for "How the HECK is an anvil this nice just sitting in a barn?!"  ;-)  

[ThomasPowers]

150# is a good weight for a shop anvil and was suggested for commercial shops back in the day that didn't require larger anvils.

WTC was stamped in by an owner/user and could be anything.

H was probably an inspection mark for that part of the anvil.

[reprosser]

Here is the underside, and the side with the Trenton logo has an incomplete WTC attempt.

[ThomasPowers]

I'm betting "Previous Owner"!

[Randy Griffin]

Yeah, with the previous owner stamping stuff all over it I'd be willing to bet it's haunted. I'll pay the freight if you want to send it to me for disposal. 

[Yanni Rockitz]

LOL - If his is haunted, mine is an absolute nightmare. I'm keeping it, though.  The only way to appease the Ghosts of Smithies Past is to pound hot metal on 'er -- return the old girl to her divined purpose. 

That pill-shaped depression in the base and the shape and numbers all point to it being of early American manufacture. GREAT excuse to order yourself a copy of Anvils In America -- which is in its seventh or eighth printing now(?) - I need to get a copy... Most places sell it for ~$75, but I want to say I found it somewhere for about $60(?) That book should tell you what year it was made, based on the numbers.

[reprosser]

So I see a lot of anvil faces on YouTube that look very smooth - like glass. Is this something I should consider with my face. It has a flat pebbled texture (from the rust I assume) I have no way to get a even smooth surface, so I would use it as-is for now.

[Glenn]

Put the anvil to use and hammer hot metal on the face for a year (2000 hours) and the face should shine.  The hammering of hot metal should smooth out much of the texture.

 

[reprosser]

I was able to get some history on the anvil from the family

The history of the anvil (that I know and can verify) is that it belonged to my step-grandfather's, grandfather (William Thomas Castles [1869-1969]), then his uncle (William Thomas Castles Jr. [1909-1981]) who never had any children, my step-grandfather (William Evans Byrd [1930-2010]), who brought it down to Lexington from the community of Cornwell in Chester county, South Carolina. The anvil probably didn't see much use after late 40s early 50s. While the Castles family did own a large planation home with about 320+ acres in Cornwell, W.T. Jr. (or Red as he was called) was a career army officer, and later an attorney, judge, author, and outdoorsman, but didn't to much to keep up with the older agrarian lifestyle of the family. While his father was still active I can imagine more than a few horseshoes were struck on that anvil, but it has largely sat in storage for the past 70-80+ years.

pretty cool, I think.

[JakeMcBroom]

Trenton anvil 128#  A78577 serial number Could you please tell me what age it is.  Please and thank you.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

AInA list it as made in 1908 

[JakeMcBroom]

Thanks so much! 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

Your welcome 

[VandegriftIronworks]

Picked up this 125# Trenton from a guy who bought it to put on his shelf, and discovered the shelf wouldn’t hold it. Paid $3.25 a pound. 
She looks barely used, has 85% rebound, and will blow out your eardrums without a chain around it. 
Serial is 125 (weight)     218793

any clue as to year? it also has the TREXION typo

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

On 3/3/2022 at 12:18 PM, VandegriftIronworks said:

218793

That’s one of those odd dates in AinA it says April 1945 or March 1947