ThomasPowers Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The first time Mr Moore went to Quad-State a couple of years ago he had to buy a trailer to ship home all the anvils he bought, got another 30 or so the next year from Quad-State too and I don't doubt I'll see him there this year as well. He did open his collection to a visit from the local ABANA affiliate, SWABA, recently too. He is a nice guy even if we hold different opinions on some things... As for cycling things back through look at the Lynch Collection! (I have even bought some lynch hammers from the estate of a smith who bought them back when the Lynch collection was sold off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Mr, Floyd Daniels of Madison GA had an anvil collection that would rival this at one time. They have all now been long since slipped back into service and ring loudly today. In my opinion what is becoming lost is the early members that started the resurgence of our craft, as we lost Mr. Daniels years ago. I have had conversations with him and other members about our history and find the content to be of great interest me and the idea of sharing knowledge. I hope someone will have the opportunity and foresight to record and document some of these treasures before they are welded to something permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I've spent most of my working life looking at anvils. I can't understand why anyone would want to study them... It's just a lump of iron! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefarm39 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I think what we are hearing here is pure "anvil envy". There is not a shortage of anvils in this country. There may be a shortage of anvils that are selling as cheap as people want to pay, but they are fairly abundant. There are new anvils being manufactured that are selling for only slightly higher prices than some of the oldies. The number of anvils in this collection is only a very small fraction of the total supply, and I can't really see that taking that few off the market would cause a "shortage". If you need an anvil, get off your butt, stop expecting one to jump out in front of you, and start looking. Expect to pay fair market value, as you would for any quality tool, and quityourbellyachin! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If you check out some of the neo-tribal folk you will see that using a chunk of scrap is considered quite proper for an anvil and there are even some folks selling "knifemaker's" anvil consisting of say 4" sq stock used *vertically*. A lot of new folk complaining about not having an anvil are too hung up on thinking they have to have a "london pattern" anvil. I've known a good number of them change their tune after they see "Living Treasures of Japan", Nat Geo, and see what the swordsmith uses, (of course then we get into the whole Nipponiphile thing, sigh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Anvils in the US seem to be much more expensive and rarer than in the UK, collecting them here would not make much difference to the supply. I think it's pointless because there is no need to study them; the shape, manufacture and use of london pattern anvils is well documented. I have often seen museums and private collectors with deep pockets outbid ordinary smiths at auctions for tools that could and in my opinion should be used to earn someone's living and it is this that annoys me. My local museum authority, for example, has several tons of perfectly ordinary and useable fullers/swages etc that are stored like archaeological specimens; they will never be displayed and are not worth studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Or even worse; I once lost out on some tools because "they were going to a museum" and then bought them cheaper from the museum when they downsized their historic village display... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerbud Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Read this and then I have said my piece and will forever be done with the whole mega anvil collection and we can all go back to being friends: Some of you will understand what I am about to describe. I usually speak wisdom through metaphors or analogies. There is an old guy who lives in the small country town where I work. He has on his property the exact model Dodge Charger that was used for the Dukes of Hazard. This car does not run, it was the exact color of the General Lee when it was new. It has probably sat for 25 years in that same spot. I have known about this car and see it every day for the past 12 years. All of the local boys have wanted to buy it and of course make a General Lee out of it. I have inquired about it. Collectors have inquired about it. It is sitting and rusting away, the rubber is collapsed, the windows have all fallen in, all in the short time that I have known this car......Now keep in mind, nobody is trying to take this old guys prized Charger. It isn't about ownership or envy. This car is a prime specimen of what could be a restored General Lee in our community. The issue is about the car, not the people. The owner of such car is obligated to make a General Lee out of it, every car person knows that. I may only have one real anvil and a couple of other chunks of steel, but I bang on them like there is no tomorrow. And when I some day have 5 or 20 more.......NOT 2000 more, I am going to bang on all of them just for the sake of doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 I would not hesitate for a second walking up to Mr. Moore (or any other collector for that matter) and congratulating him for doing what he enjoys with his money. I don't think he is collecting anvils to drive up the market value of anvils (a la DeBeers with the world diamond supply), but he probably truly enjoys it. I understand the analogy of the General Lee, but Mr. Moore is not letting the anvils fall into disrepair and rust away, never to be used again. I would think that most of them will be used again at some point. I for one would love to have the opportunity to visit his museum and check out all the history there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Well; I wouldn't call it a museum. To me a museum includes a lot more information available about every piece with provenance etc recorded. I'd call Mr Moore's a "collection". So back to forging? I spotted a piece on tech's surplus lot out here that had two 3" x 12" x 60" legs on it; one topped by a lovely fuller design bolted to it. Come the auction in June I may try to see how cheap I could get it and send it out into the world as several anvils. (each leg would be over 600#!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Thomas, Now that sounds like a deal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 No it sounds like *work* I might have to bolt wheels on it to get it drug home luckily I can go the back route and stay off the interstate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilsbeme Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 I am with ya on that one. That anvil pic almost made me cry. I am having a hard time to find one decent anvil and a post vise. Poor you...you just don't get out of the house much I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvilsbeme Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 Sounds like there's several crybabies out there with jealous tendencies. What most of you don't realize is that anvils never made it out west in the horse and buggy days. Fred constantly sells anvils to anyone who comes by to visit or look; in fact, he routinely sells to the students at the Gunther's Blacksmithing school located in Moriarty, NM. So, these anvils are getting dispursed to actual blacksmiths putting them to use. I say to those who are saying "I just can't find an anvil because people are hording them" that there's dozens of them on eBay every week. Quit being so tight with your money and buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irontwister Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I've spent most of my working life looking at anvils. I can't understand why anyone would want to study them... It's just a lump of iron! speak for your self. there is a rich history in tthe studying of anvils. it maybe a "lump of iron" that made a knife that was used to carve americas history somehow.lump of iron makes me frown. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I think that here in Alaska we have less anvils than in other states, but the reason that people cann't find one is that they don't want to spend what one is worth new. Buying new ones really increases the oppertunities of future smiths. So if you really want to help the future smiths each of us should buy at least a half dozen new anvils to be sold at our estate auctions. Then die before me. I am a little light on my 1/2 doz so I can't die yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 This morning, I'm off to see the Moore collection of anvils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 It's not about how many toys you die with, but rather what you do with them while you are here. 500 anvils are only a decoration akin to yard art if you aren't using them. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have moved this to the anvil section as it is subject specific to discussing anvils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Well, buy all accounts, no smith should have more than two anvils. One main shop anvil and one smaller anvil to travel with. And, if you don't do demonstrations, you don't need that lighter anvil. There are folks out there that really need an anvil and you're hoarding them! Or, why not take that line of thinking to include smithing tools? We've all seen rack upon rack upon rack of hammers, tongs and such. And we all know that the large majority of those tools will never be used. Hoarding them only drives the price up and starves new smiths out of the market. Right? If an American wants to spend his money on collecting metal-working tools, fine. He has no "obligation" to use them or make something with them. They are his to do with as he pleases. Freedom is a wonderful thing. And one day those tools will make their way back onto the market and be in great condition because of the care he showed them. Can't find an anvil? Hogwash. What people really mean when they say that is that they can't find a london-pattern anvil that's in mint condition, being sold for fifty cents, and is only a quarter of a block down the road from them! I bought a very nice 300# Fisher anvil on ebay and had it shipped from Mass to SC. Shipping was only $200. Every day I go on ebay and use "blacksmithing" as my key word. Every day I see anvils up for auction and a lot of them are in really great condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Anyone is welcome to collect whatever interests them, be it stamps, cars, airplanes, boats, guns, tattoos, military tanks, or even anvils. Those with more disposable income can collect more items, as well as those rare items in that subject field. As blacksmiths we collect scrap and put it in a pile, and whether it is in a pile or not it is still a collection, and at best, worthless scrap with a negative value to others or the neighbor. If you want X amount of anvils, then open up the purse strings and buy them. If you want the big XXX pound anvil, then open up the purse strings and buy it. Can not find it on your own, then open up the purse strings and hire a headhunter or agent to find one for you. If you say it takes money then go out and earn the money. Use what you have now to get to where you want to be.There are only a few blacksmith shops that were instantly unloaded off the truck and put into operation. All had to start somewhere, usually small, and one item was added at a time. As a business, each item or tool had to earn its keep in the shop. As a hobby, each item was added, one at a time, with disposable income gathered from not buying that pack of cigarettes, or packing your own lunch for work rather than eating out with the boys. To fault someone for spending YEARS of their time and money to assemble a collection is short sighted. We should be happy that they have been able to enjoy the hunt for each item and display the results of their work. To call these folks names is beneath us. Everyone will have something we do not, and we will have something others do not. Do not cast shadows upon someone else's efforts Instead get up and get out and get to work to get that thing your desire. Such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Well, buy all accounts, no smith should have more than two anvils. One main shop anvil and one smaller anvil to travel with. And, if you don't do demonstrations, you don't need that lighter anvil. There are folks out there that really need an anvil and you're hoarding them! Or, why not take that line of thinking to include smithing tools? We've all seen rack upon rack upon rack of hammers, tongs and such. And we all know that the large majority of those tools will never be used. Hoarding them only drives the price up and starves new smiths out of the market. Right? If an American wants to spend his money on collecting metal-working tools, fine. He has no "obligation" to use them or make something with them. They are his to do with as he pleases. Freedom is a wonderful thing. And one day those tools will make their way back onto the market and be in great condition because of the care he showed them. You confuse "need" with "want" - which is what I wrote in the other threads that addressed this same subject. When I quit demonstrating, I sold my smaller anvil because I didn't need it anymore in my shop. I won't bust anybody's chops for collecting but call a spade a spade and be done with it. Collecting anvils is no different from collecting Duesenbergs or Winchesters, if you have the coin and want to play, then please have at it. However, the average shop only NEEDS one anvil - your mileage may differ... And don't think the collections always make it back to the market. I have seen a couple of estates that went to the scrap dealer because the previous owner died and the kids didn't want to mess with it. That has happened more than once in this neck of the woods - and it's probably not unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 agrees to disagree agreeably Thank you for disagreeing agreeably...I do appreciate that. My point has been and continues to be - most shops are one man or hobby shops - the ratio of those to professional production and/or places with more than one employee is high. However, if you need more than one anvil, then please get another one (or more)...and I fully understand forging stations - so if it helps your work then go for it. I currently have one anvil but several portable forges (for different size work) and multiple vises. For what I produce, more anvils just tie up capital and provide no extra throughput. I would get more use from another power hammer (smaller than my 100 lb.) and may well be something I purchase in the future. I am a one man shop with no helpers and my work area is set up for my needs. Your mileage may differ...nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakwoodironworks Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Wow! Looks like you had a great field trip. Looks like a real neat place to visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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