making a point (literally)

[inuroku842]

Okay, I am completely new to this and am in the process of making my very first blade, ever. I have a rough shape of the blade and have the right thickness that I want and everything, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to put a point at the tip. It looks more like a golf club than the end of a knife. Can somebody please help?

[ThomasPowers]

First single edge or double edge?

Hot cut it, grind it, or forge it. When forging a point you need to have the blade with the tip at the edge of the anvil so you can hit down on it with 1/2 the hammer face below the face of the anvil. I generally like to finish off tipping a single edge blade on the horn to drag the tip and any birds mouth beyond the level of the back of the blade so when filed or ground it's totally gone.

[inuroku842]

single edge, but I'm working on a piece of rail iron for an anvil. I used a piece of leaf spring for blade material. I don't really know how to forge a tip onto the blade, I don't want to have to cut away any material in order to put a tip on it, partly due to the fact that I don't have the hardware required to do it (aside from cutting it on the edge of the anvil, kind of a pain sometimes).

[Rhyfelwr]

Heat it back up and draw it down into a point (if you can't cut it) and then worry about thinning the blade back. I usually forge the point roughly first and the form the blade and work back to the point again. There really isn't a wrong way to do it. Usually just whatever works.

Do you have any pictures?

[Mark Wargo New2bs]

I used a hacksaw on the knife I'm working on now. Since then, I've come to experience the pure bliss of a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder with cut-off wheel. I highly recommend it as an inexpensive way to cut metal. The black and decker from walmart should do fine for low intensity work and I think it runs around $30. $5 for the cut-off wheel. Forging after you have the blade to shape will require careful attention to keep from folding the blade. Good luck with the process!

Mark

[reefera4m]

inuroku842

There is a .pdf file availabe on the internet - Basic Blacksmithing - An Introduction to Tool Making with Locally Available Materials - by David Harries and Bernhard Heer that is an outstanding primer for just what your looking for. In fact, starting on page 91, it explains, in detail, how to forge a knife from leaf spring steel, including the point. I would attach it here but it is almost 4MB.

Just Google 'Basic Blacksmithing', it will be the first or second hit!

I can't recommend it highly enough.

[brucegodlesky]

It may be a good idea to learn a few basic blacksmith procwedures before jumping into forging a blade.

[Don A]

A second to what Bruce said.

Can you consistantly take a piece if 1/4" square stock and draw it to a perfect four-sided point?

Now, how about a piece of 1/2" ?

Can you consistantly turn a piece of square stock into round? Can you turn round into square? (square... not a slanted trapezoid)

Learn the fundamentals first. It will benefit you greatly in the future.

Here is a link to the first of 9 videos of Alan Longmire forging a Bell dirk:

Alan Longmire - Bell dirk demo

This demonstrates how important basic forging techniques are in bladesmithing.

Don

[ThomasPowers]

The first lesson at my forge is a simple S hook; a lot of the "macho" folks don't want to do one; but I tell them that *EVERY* step is directly applicable to forging knives and it's a lot nicer to learn on fast easily repeatable projects than to spend a lot of time forging a blade only to have to throw it away because they don't have the basics under control.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I have a second edition (1920) of Elementary Forge Practice by Robert Harcourt, instructor of forge practice, Stanford University. In this book one of the projects is a hunting knife. To form the tip he uses a hot eye chisel to trim it.

[ThomasPowers]

THERE IS ONLY ONE WAY TO CORRECTLY FORGE AN ITEM and that is ANY WAY THAT WORKS!

[pkrankow]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pdf/blacksmithing.pdf

I miss the blueprints and book links
Phil

[inuroku842]

-

[inuroku842]

So in essence I should be tapering it down to a point, then form the blade? I really don't feel like cutting away any material before the final grind (am I wrong for doing this?). I may not be a master of the basics, but I know I don't HAVE to cut away parts of my material to put a point on my blade.

Here is what I've done so far.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Not sure what your opposition to trimming it is, other than maybe showing off skills. Some knives are made completely by stock removal.

Cut it ,grind it, pound it, do what ever you have to do to make it turn out the way YOU want it to. It doesn't matter which method you choose as long as you have fun doing it B)

[brucegodlesky]

Ya don't have to be a master of the basics. You do have to use those basics to do what you describe. There won't be any reinventing of the wheel here.

[Rhyfelwr]

So.. Am I to think Bruce commands no reinventing the wheel? Or are you saying its all been done every way it can be?

:D

[newbladesmith]

i had a lot of trouble at first with the points. and i never learned anything before starting to make knives. the first thing that i ever made with a forge was a small utility knife out of 3/4 inch flat stock. it isn't the prettiest thing in the world, but i use it for just about anything i can think of and it still works. It may be what some on here would call a letter opener, it's made form mild steel, but that it what i had to learn on at the time. working with cheep low carbon steel helped me figure out things like points without wasting a lot of money. and i had fun in the learning process. If you don't want to use stock removal then don't. i haven't yet. what i do is just pick the side that i want my edge to be on. i forge the point first. hammer the corner of the edge until it starts to buckle a little, then lay it down and hammer out the buckle. after a couple times doing this you'll start to see the taper. you'll have to fiddle around a bit to figure out how to shape the curve to the point the way you want it, but if you practice on inexpensive stock you can figure it out before moving up to the good stuff.

[inuroku842]

i had a lot of trouble at first with the points. and i never learned anything before starting to make knives. the first thing that i ever made with a forge was a small utility knife out of 3/4 inch flat stock. it isn't the prettiest thing in the world, but i use it for just about anything i can think of and it still works. It may be what some on here would call a letter opener, it's made form mild steel, but that it what i had to learn on at the time. working with cheep low carbon steel helped me figure out things like points without wasting a lot of money. and i had fun in the learning process. If you don't want to use stock removal then don't. i haven't yet. what i do is just pick the side that i want my edge to be on. i forge the point first. hammer the corner of the edge until it starts to buckle a little, then lay it down and hammer out the buckle. after a couple times doing this you'll start to see the taper. you'll have to fiddle around a bit to figure out how to shape the curve to the point the way you want it, but if you practice on inexpensive stock you can figure it out before moving up to the good stuff.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! i honestly couldn't figure out where I was going wrong, but I pretty much understand it now. thanks for all your guys' help, really appreciate it.

[brucegodlesky]

Fellas, forging blades is done using basic blacksmithing techniques. Plain and simple. You can rename these techniques if you choose. But they are still basic blacksmithing techniques. Nothing more nothing less. These techniqes have been used for hundreds of yrs with good results.
If you think you have come up with a new way to forge blades using more than these basic techniques , lets hear it.
Learn the basic techniques or don't. The first couple blades I made were tribunals . I didn't know the first thing about blacksmithing and there wasn't any IFI to go to for advice. When I decided I wanted to LEARN how to forge blades, I had to follow some well worn guidelines, like how to draw a piece of metal into a point.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I think the point here is that there is more than one way to make a knife. Can it be shaped by forging alone? Yes, to a point. Can it be shaped by cutting, and grinding? Yes. My 1920 Stanford University blacksmithing text book shows trimming, so it was a common practice then. Yes basic techniques are used, and a blade can be a way to develop them. He could be making gumtree leaves for the Aussie project, which look a lot like a knife blade, so I wouldn't say that a blade shape isn't a good starter project. I made some knives when I first got started back in High School. Some made it, some didn't, but I learned from each one. I think the point that I want to make is that as long as one can learn from their mistakes it's all good. Learning from our mistakes makes us the smart monkeys. Otherwise it is pointless to continue.

[beatamax]

Your still going to have to learn blacksmithing techniques but you might find it easier to make a knife from a piece of coil spring rather than leaf spring but to be honest i'd bash a few bits of mild steel about first to see what happpens to it.

[chuckster2.0]

Here are some videos that show the tapering of a knife blade

1:06-1:51
notice how he brings the tip to the edge of the anvil as it gets closer to a point this is to allow the hammer the ability to angle the steel without damaging the anvil surface

0:12-0:29

[inuroku842]

Fellas, forging blades is done using basic blacksmithing techniques. Plain and simple. You can rename these techniques if you choose. But they are still basic blacksmithing techniques. Nothing more nothing less. These techniqes have been used for hundreds of yrs with good results.
If you think you have come up with a new way to forge blades using more than these basic techniques , lets hear it.
Learn the basic techniques or don't. The first couple blades I made were tribunals . I didn't know the first thing about blacksmithing and there wasn't any IFI to go to for advice. When I decided I wanted to LEARN how to forge blades, I had to follow some well worn guidelines, like how to draw a piece of metal into a point.

Well i do have down some of the basics and was actually able to figure it out. I've been smithing for a few months now, working the basics such as rounding squares and squaring rounds, bending, tapering, and etc. I'm not a total newbie, but this is the first time i've done any kind of blade work, and i dodn't know how to implement some of those basic skills.

[newbladesmith]

autodidact-self-education or self-directed learning. An autodidact is a mostly self-taught person, as opposed to learning in a school setting or from a full-time tutor or mentor.