Avadon Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I have a 220V 30amp KMG Belt Grinder sander I'm going to run on a dryer 220v 30amp dryer outlet. The machine does run on 30amps and I verified this with them. I got the right receptacle for that outlet from lowes but the instructions have black white and red wires connecting to the 3 blades of the plug. They show the white wire going to the middle L shaped prong and the red and black going to the v-shaped dryer prongs. I don't have that! I have BLACK WHITE AND GREEN. So i'm looking at this plug and wondering does the green go in the middle and the black and whites are the hot's? Or does the white go in the middle and the black and green are the hots?!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I would open the grinder up and check but green is usually ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Good call I just popped it open. Black and white are hooked up to L1 and L2 (i'm sure that's line 1 and line 2) and the Green is off on a seperate ground terminal. So the Green must go in the middle of that plug and black and white on the v shaped prongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadetoz Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Green is definitely 'Earth' - In Australia we run only one hot wire in an Active - Neutral - Earth configuration. In the US you run two hot (or phases) plus the earth. Can you post a picture of the other side of the plug showing the blades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Without being there it is difficult to advise. The book I tend to refer to is "Wiring Simplified" by H.P. Richter and W.C. Schwan, a small 182 page paperback of which I have three copies around the house, as it has lots of useful information in a simplified manner. The book has sections on wiring heavy appliances and wiring motors, voltage for motors, and the size of wires to use for each. When I built a stand for a KMG grinder I used a Magnetic Starter Switch, something you might wish to consider depending on the amperage of your motor. http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Articles/magneticstarters.htm http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/magneticstarterorsafetyswitch.aspx I tried attaching photographs but unfortunately that feature seems not to be working, so here is a photograph that I posted years ago to a blacksmithing Wiki. The switch is the small white box with red and green buttons: http://wiki.bgcmonline.org/bin/view.cgi/BlacksmithInfo/StandWithMotormount Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
territorialmillworks Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 In a 110 V circuit, white is your neutral. In a 220 V circuit, white or red is used as the other leg. If you were to run a 220 circuit into your panel box, you would have to cover the white wire with black tape for code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Well I had the fire extinguisher and everything ready just in case I plugged in it wrong. But I was definitely sure the green went center and the black and white went on the side prongs. Well I almost killed myself lifting it over to the plug to test it but I got it there. And now your moment of zenKMG Startup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Most 220 stuff nowadays uses 4 wires. They use a separate wire for neutral even though it comes from the same buss in the panel. I never could see the logic. Now I kinda do. The ground (green) is just for emergency to ground the appliance, it shouldn't be used to carry current. Many appliance manufacturers were running 110 volt accessories off it though rather than spending money on a little transformer. Actually it's the same as three wire 110 in that respect. In my shop everything runs through bonded conduit and the conduit serves as a ground, BUT NOT AS A NEUTRAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 Most 220 stuff nowadays uses 4 wires. They use a separate wire for neutral even though it comes from the same buss in the panel. I never could see the logic. Now I kinda do. The ground (green) is just for emergency to ground the appliance, it shouldn't be used to carry current. Many appliance manufacturers were running 110 volt accessories off it though rather than spending money on a little transformer. Actually it's the same as three wire 110 in that respect. In my shop everything runs through bonded conduit and the conduit serves as a ground, BUT NOT AS A NEUTRAL. Hi Nakedanvil, Yah that is the smart way to do it. Both my 7.5hp 30amp vertical compressor and the KMG Belt Grinder both have 3 wire. Not much I can do about it. The ridiculous thing is i'm renting this house so I only pulled one 220v 30 amp line for my miller tig. The other 220v 30 amp I share between the compressor, the dryer and now my new kmg belt grinder. It's like ridiculous plugging and unplugging applieances. I need one of those 3 into 1 220v adapters. Don't even know if they make something like that. Then all I would have to do is make sure never two of them run at once. I just don't want to run anymore lines since I may move out this summer or next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Avadon, Keep in mind that compressor can and will start when it wants to. If you rig an adapter put the compressor on one line. The rest (switchable) on the adapter. That way a tiny air leak won't be a problem. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi Nakedanvil, Yah that is the smart way to do it. Both my 7.5hp 30amp vertical compressor and the KMG Belt Grinder both have 3 wire. Not much I can do about it. The ridiculous thing is i'm renting this house so I only pulled one 220v 30 amp line for my miller tig. The other 220v 30 amp I share between the compressor, the dryer and now my new kmg belt grinder. It's like ridiculous plugging and unplugging applieances. I need one of those 3 into 1 220v adapters. Don't even know if they make something like that. Then all I would have to do is make sure never two of them run at once. I just don't want to run anymore lines since I may move out this summer or next summer. What would work well for you is a 50AMP "spider" box like the construction guys use... It has one 50amp input (your 30 amp in this case with a 50 amp plug) and several outlets all with there own breakers.. Two 220V (one 50, on 30 amp ) and 6 120V all GFI.. You can by one on craigslist for less than $100 if you watch ( I have three bought that way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 What would work well for you is a 50AMP "spider" box like the construction guys use... It has one 50amp input (your 30 amp in this case with a 50 amp plug) and several outlets all with there own breakers.. Two 220V (one 50, on 30 amp ) and 6 120V all GFI.. You can by one on craigslist for less than $100 if you watch ( I have three bought that way)50 amp plugs won't fit into 30 amp receptacles - the pin configurations are different. Of course, one could either change out the plug or buy an adapter. The purpose of the green wire (sometimes a bare wire) is to keep the case of your equipment at ground potential - zero volts relative to ground. This is the same potential your body is usually at. As Glen wisely noted, the "neutral" wire is not always at ground potential and should never be connected to equipment case or conduit or anything else anyone might touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 Avidon- Why not daisy chain several properly configured plug boxes with a plug-in going to the receptacle you wired in already. Cost would be minimal and no plug-un-plug nightmare. Popping the breaker with too much running IS a potential so keep that in mind. I run my shop with a 50 Amp generator and as long as only one hungry machine is running at a time, I've had no problems. If I'm running say, a 5 HP machine and need to run something smaller, around 1 HP, I leave the 5 HP machine running while I turn on the lower HP machine. Start up amps are about 2/3 more than no load running amps. Nice looking grinder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Avidon- Why not daisy chain several properly configured plug boxes with a plug-in going to the receptacle you wired in already. Cost would be minimal and no plug-un-plug nightmare. Popping the breaker with too much running IS a potential so keep that in mind. I run my shop with a 50 Amp generator and as long as only one hungry machine is running at a time, I've had no problems. If I'm running say, a 5 HP machine and need to run something smaller, around 1 HP, I leave the 5 HP machine running while I turn on the lower HP machine. Start up amps are about 2/3 more than no load running amps. Nice looking grinder! That sounds like the trick.. i'm just curious how I daisy chain several plug boxes together. Do I take a 220V plug and plug that into the main 30amp outlet and then that cord goes to several recepticle boxes mounted together on a board? That's basically what your saying right? Just running the 3 wires to each outlet, splicing each green, black and white to as many outlets as I need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Safety first Without knowing where Avadon is located, (no location entry under his name) it is difficult to provide local electrical advise. The best advice would be contact KMG for a electrical diagram of the machine and motor. This information will then give Avadon or a qualified electrician a place to start in hooking things up correctly using the electrical service in his location. Look into a switchable outlet configuration where only one outlet can be made hot at any one time. You could then switch from A being hot and B not hot, to B being hot and A not hot. This would leave no way to have both hot at the same time. I understand the intention of multiple electrical outlets on one circuit, but you must remember that you are not the only one that will use that electric service. A switchable outlet configuration would keep people safe and the circuit from being overloaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyHoser Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hi Nakedanvil, Yah that is the smart way to do it. Both my 7.5hp 30amp vertical compressor and the KMG Belt Grinder both have 3 wire. Not much I can do about it. The ridiculous thing is i'm renting this house so I only pulled one 220v 30 amp line for my miller tig. The other 220v 30 amp I share between the compressor, the dryer and now my new kmg belt grinder. It's like ridiculous plugging and unplugging applieances. I need one of those 3 into 1 220v adapters. Don't even know if they make something like that. Then all I would have to do is make sure never two of them run at once. I just don't want to run anymore lines since I may move out this summer or next summer. With regards to 'not much you can do about that' (both have 3 wires), keep in mind that a true 220v machine that does not have any internal components that require 110v (typically something with just a 220v motor, like a grinder or compressor, well pump, etc) requires just the 2 hot wires - no neutral is used. I suspect your ground wire is really just a ground - all the current is just going through the 2 hots, and it would probably continue to work fine with the ground disconnected. For something that uses both 220v and 110v (like a dryer, with a 220v heating element but 110v for the controls/motor etc) then you should have 2 hots, 1 neutral (for the 110v components only), and a ground. Running something on just 2 hots with no neutral doesn't seem intuitive - at least it didn't to me originally, when I was looking in my breaker box and didn't see any neutral wire going to the well pump. To understand why it works like that, you need an understanding of how split-phase transformer works, which is what 220v residential power comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 I need to jump in here. A comment was made about not needing a ground. I must correct this before someone gets killed. While a motor/light will run, the idea of a ground(earth) connection is to save your life. With out that a motor housing can become energized, like the 100#LG a few hammer ins ago, and if the gound is proper the breaker trips when it energized the grounded frame of the machine, without a ground it is now a energized motor housing and frame waiting to bite and possably kill the person that touches it, Ask Ian about getting kicked when that happened to him, He is ok, but it would have been avoided if that circuit was grounded correctly. When he touched the metal machine, his body completed the path the earth, because in that case he was the gound wire and while you may be fine you may also die. Never remove or operate with out a properly grounded circuit. Also, a nuetral wire only carries the inbalance of the load, in the 220/240 load we are talking about here they are in balance so its not going to miss not having that nuetral, normally a white or gray wire. the ground shunts voltage to earth, and if there is enough present casues the fuse to blow, shutting off the electricity. Steve IBEW electrician Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 What Steve said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale M. Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Dittos... On what Steve the IBEW electrician says.... Ground (safety (green)) is very important ... ON one very rare occasion I had a power tool that the green safety ground lead was broken and hot lead shorted to case (110 volt tool), experience was not pleasant and I'm lucky to be walking around today because I took jolt right across the heart, from right hand to left hand.... Good practice is to once in a while take a ohm meter and verify grounds of power tools with metal shells are good from plug to shell of tool I mainly speak of corded power tools... I know most tools to day are plastic shells and double insulated (and may only have two conductor plugs - Dewalt 15 amp chop saw), but some vintage tools I have are not.... Also any connection in a stationary tool, hard wired can come loose over time... IF there is lots of vibration present, it may be good practice to power down circuit to tool and verify all connections for tightness and integrity ( at least once in a while) ... When something electrical goes bad its not always apparent visually... Verifying work shop/smithy receptacles is also a good idea too..... Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted March 15, 2013 Share Posted March 15, 2013 Steve's right, I'm a Journeyman Electrician myself. Keep in mind that although the numbers sound close, there are huge differences between how 120, 208, 220, 277, and 480 devices are wired in just the U.S. let alone other countries. It's terribly important to make sure that the safety measures that are built into these systems are never compromised. My code teacher could often cite examples of an accidental death that gave rise to a new code requirement. It's not always obvious why something would be dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.