Jump to content
I Forge Iron

Nazel 4N for sale in Washinton $6000


Recommended Posts

I have offered this to one of the members here on I forge Iron and he has first right of refusal (through me anyway, I dont control the deal nor is it my hammer) I have offered to help with the rigging and removal of the hammer if he buys it and If he walks the offer will stand for anyone I can get to save this ol beauty...

This is a 4N "Heavy Duty" hammer... same in operation as a B model but has external ram guides which give the ram more support. The trade off is there is less clear space to use tooling. There is 9" clear between the dies, a 4B has like 16" Its a 500lb tup two peice hammer. Total weight is 17,000 lbs. It will have to be rigged out with a crane due to its location, most likely with a RT pick and carry to get it out to where it can be set on a truck. My guess is a grand for the crane but it could be $500-$1500...(or more or less, no guarantees) The hammer runs but I think it needs some love... you could put it to work as is but the dies really need cleaned up or replaced. I would drill and bush all the linkage parts, just because I want positive tight valve control. I would do rings and leather seals in it before putting it into service.... it runs alot of oil though it because the ram seal is shot.. but they are leather and are a wear item so that's to be expected. It has one broken handle that does not affect operation They are keeping it place with a clamp.... There is some surface rust on the ram but it is not pitted, I would polish it up when I replaced the seal. The bull gear and flywheel look good as do the guides. All the oilers are in place and it has a unloading valve installed. It has a 20HP motor and a Phase adder that Im pretty sure goes with the hammer no charge. My experience has been that unless a hammer is coming out of a neat freak shop they all need something, This thing needs far less than my Nazel did when I got it and I think will make someone a real workhorse. If I owned my own shop I would buy it but I just cant see spending the money to poor a foundation for a two peice when my goal is to move out of there as soon as I can afford to do so... So here is the kicker... The spot where this hammer sits is being foreclosed on... Its got to be gone by Christmas... This is why I posted this info prior to hearing from the one potenital buyer, there is not time to mess around or this thing will be lost and probably end up scrapped by some developer... So like I said... I have nothing to gain here. I am not getting a cut of the sale nor am I asking to be paid for my time or help.... Im just trying to help the ol boy out who owns the thing (and I hardly know him) and make sure this hammer goes to a good home

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 191
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I think he means operating out side the laws of physics.

Look what just arrived Home in Long Beach! Will post better pic's later.....

Home Sweet Home... Thanks to Larry and his helper and Bob B. and all that helped get it here.... She is Sweet! Foot lever is Jacked and I need to find or make a new Hand lever with the

Posted Images

Hey, thanks for doing your part in saving this beauty from the scrap heap. Once these old machines are gone for , they're gone for good.

It will be interesting to see where this ends up. Do you know any of the history of this hammer ? From the photos it doesn't look like it was presently in an industrial setting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The hammer used to be at Seattle Steel Rolling Mill, formerly Birmingham Steel and Bethlehem Steel before that. I chased it at one time fifteen or so years ago, but the current owner got it.

The machine actually has the same or more clearance under the die, it's just a little restricted due to the guides. Possible to hold larger dies because it doesn't need to go up inside the round guide like on the "B" model.

Link to post
Share on other sites

According to my library sources, the Nazel folks originally imported Beche hammers, then began manufacturing these machines. The "B" in the series 1B, 2B, 3B,... stands for Beche. So I think, Grant, that we have to give the Germans credit for the typical Nazel design and 99% of the hammer with the guided ram design, even if made in Philadelphia.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep! And the "N" series stands for Nazel, a modification they made with the external guides. The "B" was indeed the Beche license. And then there was the "I" die forging hammer. Had a machined anvil that fit in a machined pocket in the frame. Plus a Gantry design.

Edited by nakedanvil
Link to post
Share on other sites

After seeing John Emmerlings 400lb De Moor and several large Chambersburgs her in the PNW. Including Larry's nice 3b. I also got the bug for a larger hammer. I am currently playing with my 4B and when the 4N came up....well lets just say its a heck of a hammer. Larry is really accurate about needing to know your long term intentions when you get one of these big hammers. 18,000 pounds does not move easily.

Thank goodness for the knowledge in the NWBA and on this site to help everyone. There are great ideas out there for not only making these great old hammers work but work like new. Also your foundations choices make an equal impact to the operation of these hammers. Frankly for most of us buying the hammer is the cheap part.

Plan to spend at least double on your foundation, moving and rigging the hammer, part replacement etc. Not to mention the work to replace and check all the parts. Big hammers sound great and they are, but make sure you are ready for the work that they require. These are not for the faint at heart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Jesse if you need any help with the foundation for that monster don't be shy. I have access to tons of rebar. I could reinforce the crap out of a pad for that thing. I've always wanted to see a really big power hammer in action. I just started smithing a few months ago, but have been an ironworker for almost fifteen years.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice looking piece of kit! - Good buy :D

Franky, you will only get one shot at setting the working height of the bottom die when you install it (lotsa old hammers are designed to be to low for the kind of work we use them for) when no ones looking get a piece of stock of the size you think youll be putting a lot of through the hammer and 'pretend' to forge it for 10 or 15 mins on blocks of different heights, you back will let you know when its right!

hopefully we might see that one running on the telly one day? ;)

edited to add,.

good luck to the guy whos been forced to sell, sounds like theres a sad background story.

Edited by John N
Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Jesse if you need any help with the foundation for that monster don't be shy. I have access to tons of rebar. I could reinforce the crap out of a pad for that thing. I've always wanted to see a really big power hammer in action. I just started smithing a few months ago, but have been an ironworker for almost fifteen years.



Thanks Man! I think the foundation is good to go... its already triple thick. Building was built in 1921 as an Industrial Laundry for the Long Beach shipyard. The pad where I'm putting it held a large crane for loading Train cars. I already have my 125ton deep draw press on the pad...It weighs about the same as the Nazel.....



731855927_DRTC3-XL.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see that hammer is going to get used. Because that hammer is a two piece hammer you will either need to cut a hole in that floor or build something like Ralph has done in the picture at the bottom of this page. Plans Available.

You will want to take your time to get everything level and lined up so your dies line up true to one another.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah when I was thinking about how I could drag this sucker back to my shop I was wondering if I could pluck the foundation and all out of the dirt and set the whole mess on a truck... Problem with that is all of a sudden we need a crane that can swing 40,000 -50,000 lbs instead of 10,000lbs ( two picks ) Figured it was probably cheaper to build a new foundation...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a picture of the foundation I put in a year ago for my Massey. I dont have a picture after I removed the formwork before the hammer went in but you can see how there has to be a hole under the hammer. A Nazel will take a rectangular hole rather than the octagon for the Massey but you can get the idea. It is 5'x8', 5.5' deep, I was going to go 6+ feet deep but I hit bedrock and groundwater.

19838.attach

Edited by JNewman
Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Jesse if you need any help with the foundation for that monster don't be shy. I have access to tons of rebar. I could reinforce the xxxx out of a pad for that thing. I've always wanted to see a really big power hammer in action. I just started smithing a few months ago, but have been an ironworker for almost fifteen years.



xxxx! sounds like I might need your help then!


th_Jessetorchesthetractor-PA120088.jpg
th_Jessefirstfire-PA120083.jpg
Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like there is some decent clearances in there. I would get a contractor with a concrete chainsaw to cut the outline of the foundation. Then, get a backhoe or trackhoe with a jackhammer to bash it out. If the hammer isn't working there are scaling heads available that can rip through concrete easily. They are rotating drums covered in carbide teeth (you want to see monsters, check those suckers out). They just don't like rebar too much.

The nice thing about the old concrete is the requirement for reinforcing steel was very light compared to newer designs. The flip side is concrete continues to gain compressive strength the longer is cures.

Link to post
Share on other sites

An alternative to doing all that floor demolition would be to build a new raised forging area. A new area may be cheaper and easier than all that. Build a skirt wall out of reinforced CMU, fill with select back fill and compact, pour new foundation for Nazel, pour new slab and then install Nazel hammer. Install safety rail.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can mount the hammer on a 2" steel plate (4x8) for a lot less money and effort. The anvil would be bolted directly to the plate, with the hammer frame being set higher using "C" channel. Bob Bergman and Ralph Sproul are using this method with success. Bolt heads are welded to the plate fror the anvil. The anvil is set on a thin hard maple platform with belting. Studs are welded to the flat side of the "C" channel for bolting the hammer frame down. The bottom of the "C" channel is welded to the plate. The proximity requirement for the anvil - ram is taken into consideration to determine the thickness of the wood and the height of the "C" channel.

The plate can either be fastened down to your concrete or just corralled with angle iron so it doesn't move around when the hammer is in use.

Edited by djhammerd
Link to post
Share on other sites

djhammerd: You can get away with that if it has an 8:1 anvil. If it is truely 18,000 total then it has the 20:1 anvil. Setting on the floor, the bottom die would be about 60" high (plus the 2" plate and maple and belting). I've not seen it done with a "4" before but might be workable with the smaller anvil.

Edited by nakedanvil
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...