Dillon Sculpture Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Formed this 1/2" plate cold under my 100 ton Metal Muncher but I'm concerned about side loading the ram. Considering building a large "smithing magician" with a couple of large linear bearings I have. Any one have a similar set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) I have a oversized 60 ton ( the 18" deep punch station model). Metal muncher. I wish I had a 100 ton. Greatest ironworkers made. Anyway yes I think you need to worry about side loads. I have a 4 foot brake that goes in mine and figure if you keep the part centered it's not too bad. I had a 50 Edwards ironworker that I destoryed by using the punch station to forge with. Put so much strain on the pins and parts that it lost the ability to stay true to punch a hole. The metal muncher is direct force from the ram so that load will all be taken on the rod. If you have guides that will work I would put them to use. I have found that punch press die "sets". The little spring loaded plates the dies go in, are great for cold forming operations. I have a couple for making offsets I use all the time. They are self contained so they are quick to set up and can be bought cheap. I have got several small ones on eBay for Around $20 and found a big one ( 2" top and bottom plates about 15" x 40" with 3" bearing guide pins) for $200 at a local surplus shop.. Edited December 8, 2009 by monstermetal Can't spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks, I was wondering how much you figure the ends of the table are designed to hold? (furthest out from the center) and is there a formula for press tonnage when bending material? Say you have 6" square with blocks under it at 4', would 100 tons bend it say an inch or two cold? (hypothetically) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well.. as for your "how much" question, by the numbers, no... Based on my calculation figuring 65,000 PSI tensile and using a 1" radius on your upper die... it would take 199.2 tons to bend 6" at a 48" spacing on the lower.... How do i know? Well because I cheated and used this calculator there is a formula that you can do the math manually, you might be able to find it in Machinerys handbook It gives tons per foot... so your chunk being square would be half a foot thus 50% of the given answer....Press Brake Tonnage Calculator — Jorgenson Machine Tools As for how strong the table is... My first Metal Muncher had the table broke in two just under the ram... It was that way when I got it and I have no idea how it happend... I ground it out did a full pen weld and then plated over it with 1" ... never had any other problems, but obviously it is possible to overwork the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 I guess I'll have to get it hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 boy that is a nice pile o iron ya got there!!! I actually called and ask a friend of mine about bending your 6" and the tonnage... He has done some shipyard work with really big steel and he said they would never work 6" sq cold.... maybe 6" plate in big chunks, but not square.... ... Now I am just repeating what I think he said.. but basically he said that big square bar typically has a very course grain structure and is likely to "delaminate" if bent cold.... something about how the stresses involved focus or something.... If you bent a 6" thick by 12" wide chunk that it would bend a whole lot better (with unlimited tonnage at your disposal) than a 6" square... the square was likely to blow apart in the middle.... Like I said I dont know... kind of makes sense though..... its harder to make a nice bend in a square bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) Wow, now I really want to see that. You think it would have the look of wrought? Is there a smaller section that could be done with 100 tons and still delaminate? Edited December 12, 2009 by Danger Dillon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I dont know... he specifically said "big" ( I know that's not very specific... But in my mind 4" is not that big) I do know that the radius of the "push" die has alot to do with how it focus the force... If you push with a 2" curve die (1" radi) it takes a lot less tonnage to bend than if you use a 24" curve (12" radi) on the top die... because of the less die contact you have the more the force is localized... So by the calculator it would take 50 tons more with that big radius top die... of course you would get a nice smooth bend over a arch instead of a kink too.... I think what he is talking about though is if you use a 1000 ton press and you bend 6" sq with something like a 16" lower die space (which would take 960 tons roughly) putting all that force into that one little bend affected zone is what causes it to blow apart.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benbini Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) Sounds dangerous but could be cool! Edited December 17, 2009 by Benbini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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