Used fly press questions

[jfifft]

Hi Guys,
1. Do you have any advice on what to look for when looking at a used fly press that I plan to use for smaller hot work?It is a JM Robinson #2 from what I am told.

2. If it is in good shape any idea what I should pay for it?

Thanks in advance!

[ThomasPowers]

Look for cracks in the casting---nb fresh paint cuts the price DOWN in my book as you can't be sure what's under it.

Any signs of abuse---old repairs, broken cast iron *anywhere* on the piece.

Look for wear on the screw and on the guide plates.

Any tool holding stuff come with it? Is it set up to be able to easily switch out top tools? Is there a sturdy bottom tool holder in place? Yes you can make all this stuff but it's extra time and really needs access to machine tools to do it nice!

Can't help on the price I got my large old H frame press in mint condition FOB for about US$100 ($50 for the press, sales tax, 15% buyer's reaming, and $35 to have a rigger load it on my truck)---industrial auction and all the company buyers wanted arbor presses that day

[jfifft]

Thanks a bunch. It looks like the original finish on it with some rust. As far as the tools and such go it is hard to tell from the picture he sent. I would post it but I can't figure out how.

It looks like it is missing the check nut for setting the depth. It also has a large "bolt" going down the front that look like some kind of reinforcement. Is that common with the old presses?

[HWooldridge]

Thanks a bunch. It looks like the original finish on it with some rust. As far as the tools and such go it is hard to tell from the picture he sent. I would post it but I can't figure out how.

It looks like it is missing the check nut for setting the depth. It also has a large "bolt" going down the front that look like some kind of reinforcement. Is that common with the old presses?

Can you post a couple of pics?

[Judson Yaggy]

A lot of old C frame presses, both fly and punch, had places where you could install one or more tension rods or "big bolts" to help the frame resist deflection under load. Sort of turning a C frame into a H frame. Could be your prospective press has this. Are the mounting points for the big bolt integral to the original casting?

[jfifft]

Yes it looks like the mounting points for the big bolt integral to the original casting.

I have attached some photos of the press they emailed me today.

Thanks again.

[HWooldridge]

I think Judson hit the nail squarely.

Looks like it's in good shape but the paint may be hiding damage - hard to say without closer inspection.

I passed on one that was similar size for $200 and am still kicking myself because they are few and far between in Central Texas.

[rustyshackleford]

Can't help on the price I got my large old H frame press in mint condition FOB for about US$100 ($50 for the press, sales tax, 15% buyer's reaming, and $35 to have a rigger load it on my truck)---industrial auction and all the company buyers wanted arbor presses that day

I hate you Thomas:p And yes, I did just spend half an hour trolling government auction sites....:cool:

[arftist]

Pretty nice press. Looks like it never had a stop nut, other ways around that. How much is the asking price?

[SGropp]

That's a stout looking press.

The guides look like they can be adjusted to take up any wear. The lack of as stop nut on the screw is a disadvantage as the ability to press to a predetermined depth is on of the great advantages of a flypress. It looks as if the position of the operating handle can only be adjusted by removing it from the top of the screw and resetting to a different position, rather an inconvenience if you do a broad range of work. This looks as if this was set up to do one type of production operation.

I would guess that you could safely remove the long bolt for all but the heaviest work.

As others have said, check carefully for hidden cracks or damage . I wouldn't hesitate to offer at least $500 or more for it. The stand is worth something in itself. Bolt it down solid or it will walk whenever the tool bottoms out.

Wear a hard hat and watch out for that heavy ball when it comes round.

[jfifft]

Thanks Everyone,
They are asking $500 for it I may offer a bit less and see if they bite. It is local so I will go see it next week for a close look.

What are the other ways around not having a stop nut?

[arftist]

Thanks Everyone,
They are asking $500 for it I may offer a bit less and see if they bite. It is local so I will go see it next week for a close look.

What are the other ways around not having a stop nut?

Stop blocks or kiss blocks. Not nearly as convient as a stop nut but if you need a certain depth it will work. Not every app for a flypress requires depth stops anyway.

I would gladly pay $500 for that press, and I doubt the bolt would be in the way very often.

[dkunkler]

($50 for the press, sales tax, 15% buyer's reaming, and $35 to have a rigger load it on my truck)

15% buyer's reaming. That funny. People who know me would say that sounds like some of my colorful terminology.

[jfifft]

Thanks for all of your help guys. I picked up the press finally yesterday. It weighs 700 LBS! So much for the "2" on the side.
I do have two questions though.

1. How do I make the Stop blocks or kiss blocks mentioned earlier in the post? How do they work?

2. The stand that came with the press was dry rotted so it ended up in the trash. Do you think a stand can be made with treated lumber that will be safe? Are there any specs or plans or anything? A store bought stand is too spendy for me right now.

Thanks Again!

[JNewman]

I would fabricate the stand out of steel if possible, if you have to build it out of wood build it stout. Make the stand tall enough that the ball clears your head by at least an inch at its lowest point. Kiss blocks or stop blocks are just blocks of steel held under a tool that they bottom out on. Depending on the tool you may have to get inventive.

[John B]

Thanks for all of your help guys. I picked up the press finally yesterday. It weighs 700 LBS! So much for the "2" on the side.
I do have two questions though.

1. How do I make the Stop blocks or kiss blocks mentioned earlier in the post? How do they work?

2. The stand that came with the press was dry rotted so it ended up in the trash. Do you think a stand can be made with treated lumber that will be safe? Are there any specs or plans or anything? A store bought stand is too spendy for me right now.

Thanks Again!

Nice tool, and having said that, I will try to make some constructive comments that may be of use to you and others

A couple of questions that raised themselves in my mind as based on the pictures, this seems to be for a specific range of pressings although of a varied range, My guess would be coining or forming objects

The reasons for my assumptions are; there is no depth stop, indicating it is a forming tool rather than a punching tool, the top tooling's method of securing appears to be a clamped on platen/tool, the base plate has no way for blanks to drop through after they are punched, and there is a lack of T slotes or other obvious methods of mounting the bottom tooling.

As someone previously raised the question of the arm being on top of the screw and may be difficult to adjust, that is open to clarification, The arm fits on a spigot that has a tapered hexagonal or octagonal shape, and merely rests on this non sticky taper, which means the arms' position can be quickly and easily altered.

To do this, remove the two weights which just slide off of the upturned end of the arm, you may then have to take a hide/wood/lead mallet or baulk of timber to just knock the arm up to jar it loose, do this towards the screw end rather than the outer ends, the arm will then lift off allowing you to move it round to a suitable facet of the cente spigot, and then drop it back onto the spigot and replace the weights.

You do not state the open/free height of the gap, and I am not certain how the tooling is currently attached, so you will have to make it up as you need it, I would suggest making a central location point so you get repeatibilty and a straight pressure down onto any tooling you may be using,
Most other flypresses I have used have had a central hole (usually 1" diameter) up the centre of the base of the moving screwed ram (which locates and moves in the dovetailed slides), and a single screw on the front of this part of the ram to secure it in position, this gives a repeatable constant location point for any type of tooling you will use. Directly beneath this position was a hole through the base to allow any blanked parts to pass through.

As the previous reply said you may have to make some tooling to accommodate the depth stops,and these will have to vary with the type of processes you are undertaking with the press, and how the tooling you are using is fitted.

If you do need to use stops or 'kissing plates' I would suggest using two off adjustable but lockable screw jacks (this may just be large diameter threaded bar screwed into the top platen and locked into place at the relevant setting with a locknut) in an appropriate position at either side or diagonally as near as practicable to the centre of the ram, these may cause a bit of a problem when being used, so be aware of their position and try to plan your work placement around them, It may be more convenient to have these attached to the top tooling as they will be less likely to interfere with access when putting you workpiece into position.

If you are going to use it for punching holes, then make sure the tooling you make has access to remove the punched piece from beneath the bottom tool, and a stripper plate incorporated in the bottom tool to allow easy component removal. Failure to remove these punched bits may result in breaking the bottom tool.

As for mounting, as firm and secure as possible, these tools give a heavy kick when they bottom out, I have them on substantial fabricated stands, although I have also had them mounted onto a heavy duty bench made of railway sleepers with fabricated frame ends, I found because it was a long bench, this reduced the kick effect, but I would still advise bolting whatever it sits on securely.

I hope this has been of assistance, Good luck and enjoy playing with it, and I look forward to seeing a posting from you in the future along the lines of "What do you do on your flypress", OR "Show me your flypress tools".

[ThomasPowers]

As an example of stop block usage: I was using my flypress to make some 1/4" sq tenons on some stock so I took a piece of cold 1/4" thick stock and mounted it on the bottom die and then just stuck the hot pieces in next to it and whappity, turn, whappity---the tenon was roughed out and was ready for a reheat and a monkey tool to dress the transition.

The stand my screwpress sits on has a shelf full of various sizes of small chunks of steel to use as stop blocks and then on the side it has a bunch of toroids to use as dishing forms.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

If you loosen the two bolts on the front of the ram, you'll find that the little flat top die has a round shank. This split holder is far better than a set-screw. The bottom bolster plate has no hole because whatever operation they were doing they didn't need it. You can remove the bolster plate and drill a center hole if you like and maybe some drilled and tapped holes for fastening tooling in. The machine has a hole in the frame under the ram. I believe the large ball belongs on the other end.

[ThomasPowers]

Or have a friend turn another one and drill it for a tool holder! (What I did)

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Thomas, yeah I suspect it has 1-1/4 - 1-1/2 inch shank. Be easy to make tool holder for a smaller shank with a set-screw if desired.The split holder is more secure, but a set-screw is quicker to change. Doesn't look to have really fast screw, not as slow as some, kinda in-between. Should be a great machine.

[jfifft]

Thanks For all the help Guys!

It does have a 1 1/2" shank tool holder. The tool that came with it has drilled and tapped holes for fastening tooling in. The bottom bolster plate came off, all 45 lbs. of it to reveal a 4" x 7" ole in the frame under the ram. Once I make a stand I should be good to go.