Avadon Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I had a propane tank with a 3 Burner heater attachment on it for my garage but it seemed to give off kinda smelly fumes so you had to open the window, which obviously destroyed the purpose of the heater. How can I heat up a large garage quickly with gas. I'd rather not spend a fortune on expensive electric heaters. Can I put a double or trippler burner heater ontop of a natural gas can from air gas? Would I have less toxic smell, fumes, etc. from burning it in a enclosed space? The kind of burner i'm talking about is this click here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teejay Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Any unvented heater will give off fumes of some kind . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Well how do furnaces work in houses? They are natural gas and people don't die? so wouldn't this work well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teejay Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 A furnace in a house is vented usally in the wall is a vent pipe going up thru the roof. You can get free standing gas heaters that if adjusted right put off very few fumes,but it does put off some fumes. The style of heater you have is a Catalytic heater no adjustments,same as the little colman heaters and you need to have a fresh air source for safety (window ) think carbon monxide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) I have a single like that, and have been around several others. If the tubing in the back of the heater is damaged you can get just enough unburned gas to have the scent dye smellable. On some you can replace that. Same is true if not seated on the bottle properly or if the air/fuel mixing chamber is plugged by a spider nest or something. These units should not give off any significant odor, and can be used indoors if ventilation is provided. Since these units do not heat the air well, you just need to reduce drafts so you can bask in the radiant energy. Like with all fires, CO detectors are STRONGLY recommended. I do not know about your natural gas. Phil Edited November 23, 2009 by pkrankow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 hmm I would think natural gas is less noxious but none of those burners say "natural gas" they all say propane. I've used them before in very open areas just to get the radiant effect in very leaky open garages or outside. But in a more enclosed garage After about 30mins to 1 hr of running it started to smell weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf's Den Armoury Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 You didn't mention what kind of forge you have. If it's a solid fuel forge, you might already have the solution right in front of you. This might be a little simplistic, but maybe set up a reflector of some sort (maybe high polished stainless sheet?) at an angle over your forge? If positioned right, it would reflect the heat from the forge out into the rest of the shop. You're already burning fuel to heat the steel, why not use the escaping heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I have been looking at getting an infrared tube heater for my shop. It looks like it would be a good solution for a metal shop which exhausts and brings in clean air because the infrared heats up the floor, people, and tools in the shop instead of the air. The one I was looking at, Infrared Radiant Gas Heaters, is gas fired and all of the exhaust is vented out of the building. Around my area these are common at restaurants where patio seating is used in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I know you know this but for new folk: If you are running *any* kind of forge except for an induction one you must have massive ventilation whether you smell anything or not! CO is colourless and To heat such drafty space IR heating or in floor heating is suggested. Now if you need heat in the garage for non-forging uses you might look out for a small wall furnace on the used market, (saw 2 for under $100 on craigslist out here last week...) Have it professionally plumbed and just turn it on when you will be working out there. Be SAFE folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 A perfect use for the water cooled side draft forge Draw water off from the top of the tank into a radiating coil or panel on a looped system, using the conduction flow of the hot water out at the top, cooled water after it has passed through the coil/tube or radiator piped into the base of the tank. Heat the shop whilst keeping the tuyere face cool. You should not even need to use a circulating pump to get a flow going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 If it isn't too drafty a small wood stove does wonders. Add a blower/fan to really get the air moving. Either that or ya just aint working hard enough :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sloscheider Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 A brand new 30,000 btu "garage heater" will set you back about $150 from a Menards, Home Depot or many hardware stores. They are odorless and over 99% efficient - no vent required and most garages / shops are leaky enough to supply fresh air. Absolutely have a CO detector even just for your forge work - get the kind with a digital display that shows peak levels even if the aren't enough to sound an immediate alarm. In most states they are even acceptable for use inside your home. The one I bought came with both LP and Natural gas connections so it would work with whatever you have available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 i have a propan comfortglo blue flame none vented 99% efficienct wall furnace. if it isnt burning corectly the flame turns yellow...it then needs air so i open a door and in a couple of mins it is blue again....if i shut up the room they wanto turn orange...no air...so i keep my eye on it and it works just fine...i use a sixty pounder tank that lasts most of the winter once i get the forges going i dont need much heat....but if i am doing bench work i want the heat....and that little bugger works greatgot it used for a 100 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 JohnB we tend to get a lot colder over here especially in the northern parts. Probably have too much problem with the system freezing and breaking -30 degC is fairly common---why heating the shop is of interest. They would definitely need to either drain the system after use or have another heater installed to keep it above freezing when not in use. I live in the far southern parts of the continental USA and we get a lot of people from Canada who winter here. It being cheaper to shut down their houses up north, drain and freezeproof the plumbing and move south for the winter rather than paying to heat their northern houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcraigl Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 How big's your shop? Mine is 17'x21', (detached garage) with a double garage door which leaks terribly. I did insulate the rest of the building the best I could and I installed 4 of these Ouellet Residential Radiant Cove Heater 71in., 900W/240V, Model# ORC0900BL | Heaters | Northern Tool + Equipment cove heaters on a programmable thermostat. It is super nice, no fumes, and relatively cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Using a fan to move the heat around can sometimes affect how well a chimney draws. Burning propane will release the same liquid volume of water (as vapour) as the vol of the gas consumed. This can cause problems with condensation on any cold surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Natural gas requires a larger orifice and/or higher pressure than propane, it has less energy in the same volume of fuel. In most gas fired appliances I have seen that conversion from Propane to nat. gas requires some changes in hardware, orifice, and higher pressure... about 11 inches of water column for propane and almost 20 for nat gas.. I grew up in Maine where wood, propane, and fuel oil were the heating fuels of choice. I live in Connecticut now, and the idea of having natural gas piped into my house is a little creepy. An unlimited supply of volatile flammable fuel? That being said, I was going to install a wood/coal stove in my shop, but the code requirement of insulated stove pipe stopped me. about $1100 for pipe put that project out of mind. I like the idea of infrared heaters, because with a forge and 12 inch flue, you can't heat the air fast enough before it is drawn outside. I also hate touching cold tools in the winter... nothing like your hand sticking to a drift when you are setting up for a project. That being said.. would an external intake for your forge blower be a good idea? I would think it might tend to leave more warm air in the shop?.... but then you are running really cold air into the bottom of the fire.... Just extrapolating from the external intake I have seen on some wood hearths that are supposed to keep more warm air in you house... just an opinion .. take it for what its worth.. Cliff and CO detectors are worth every penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 (edited) Cold air intake is used for other combustion applications since the cold air is more dense. Granted we are only interested in the O2 content, and not the other gasses that do not aid combustion. Since we are talking about 2000F increase in temperature an additional 50F-100F is not much more change. That same concept is used in EPA certified wood burning heaters with good results. Phil Edited November 25, 2009 by pkrankow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Hey Cliff, Don't ya just love the codes there. Left in 75 no thoughts of going back. Creepy how many houses have nat gas piped in? Think snowed in. Power failure. I am about to add a nat gas line. gas logs, gas grill, furnace and perhaps a blown forge. The Generator keeps the lights and puter on. Add the water heater, furnace, water pump stove ect loads it down. No real differance to a large propane tank. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Would love to be worried about heating my shop. Its been 43 degrees C here (about 109 F) for a few days and the forge is a test of my endurance. Can only manage a couple of hours at a time. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 The thing I like about bottled propane is that there is a finite amount, and they have temp relief valves... when they let go it is a big flare... but.. when its gone its gone.. I don't know enough about nat gas piping to know if there is a fire a safety mechanism of any kind... i assume there is .. but have no idea... This is just hearsay!! from a guy I know that worked for the gas company, but almost all the old gas mains are contaminated with PCB oil from the gas pumps that leaked, before scientists found out PCBs are very toxic. The PCB oil was used because it drastically cut down on maintenance and breakdowns... that is just one more thing... yes I know most of the toxins that are in coal smoke... has anyone else heard of this? rmcpb- there is no end.. either it is too hot or too cold... I can stick to my steel tools in the winter.. you can get burned picking tools up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 You're right there :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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