antigoth24 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 as stated above...i havent been able to find anything on this so maybe you guys could help me out...how to you go about making a file or rasp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 You get a cruel & degrading minimum-wage job and buy one!Wait,no... OK,you forge a chisel,and you raise a bunch of chisel marks on a piece of iron/steel,in a pattern of your choice(the more random,the smoother the cut will be). Then you pack it in a clay muffle(box),full of carbonaceous stuff of your choice-charcoal dust,rawhide,hooves,et c.By heating the whole mess at a proper(fairly high),temp,you achieve cementation,to whatever depth that you had the patience to take it to. (The reason that you can't just use steel and heat-treat it normally is that the little pointy cutter teeth that make your file a file,will scale off.Unless you have a nice bottle of argon and can flood your forge environment and keep it plumb full while austenising.But if you have all that,surely there must be a file around as well...) So,rewind back a millenium or so again.When it absorbs enough C you yank it out and quench it VERY quickly!And voila-you have a file!Exept,of course,the quench medium must be the urine of a red-headed boy,or of a white goat fed strictly on pure ferns,and don't forget the lunar cycles,either! And now that you know all these terrible arcana,may i ask why would you want to make a file? Cheers,Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainsFire Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I imagine there's actually a quite a market for hand forged wood worker rasps. might almost be worth the hours and hours of punching, and sharpening your chisels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 There is such a market, as Auriou rasps (handmade in France... by one man) are quite expensive and usually out of stock, awaiting shipment, etc. I have bought several at antique malls for just a few dollars each though. I have understood that the rasps are toothed hot though at exactly WHAT heat I don't know. Personally I have considered the notion of making some highly specialized files or floats for things like planemaking. There exists the possibility of coming up with some sort of out of the box techniques... for instance I retooth old sharpening steels with coarse diamond files and they seem as good or better than new ones. I know that some of the blademakers on this forum use commercial or home-brewed fluxes to reduce or even almost eliminate scale and that approach would seem promising too. All in all this topic seems worthy of discussion whether any files ever actually get made or no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antigoth24 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 well i was looking through a box oh old files when the thought struck me...how do you even make these? so i ran over a couple possibilities and they didnt seem like they work so i came here i might try and make one now though just as one of those "i did that" projects ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belargehair Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 In the book "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" By Alexander G. Weygers, there is a section on making files, though he states "It is not difficult to make a fairly crude file, but handmade files cannot compete with machine-made industrial ones." He shows how he makes files from high carbon steel. He anneals it, makes the groves with a cold chisel (at the proper angle for the particular file) then harden. Haven't tried it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 There was a great video on youtube, can't find it right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Grant, Are you thinking about the one of the Japanese fellow? I couldn't find it either. Very labor intensive and a hard way to make a living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Google works great - File Making by Hand and Machine - JK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Here's one:YouTube - Filecutting Lotta information here too: Anyone tried to make a large file? - Bladesmith's Forum Board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jura T Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Japanese file making: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyshackleford Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 French rasp-making: YouTube - SARL FTP piqueur de r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 (edited) A history of filecutting and how it was replaced by industrial processes.Materializing Sheffield - A Filecutter's Hammer from the Hawley Collection And a quote from that: "The speed at which early filesmiths could cut a file is not known, but at the beginning of the 19th century, a boy was timed cutting a three-square file, 5 inches long, with a 'double' cut, i.e. having two sets of teeth cut into each side. (Rees, 1819, 374). The file had 1,350 teeth and the boy made 225 strokes per minute, taking about 6 minutes to cut the file! Fremont, in 1920, writes that a filecutter using a five kilogram hammer (c.10 lbs) could make 88 strokes per minute, but averaged 50, while a hammer weighing two and a half kilos, allowed a filecutter to make 114 strokes per minute, averaging 75. This is a much lower rate than the slightly unbelievable rate of the 19th century boy, but the boy would have used a much lighter hammer." Edited December 7, 2009 by Jacques Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McCoy Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I now understand the Zen of toolmaking!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukellos Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Heres an interesting drawing of a machine that Leonardo da Vinci invented to cut files. The table automatically advanced the file blank after each hammer/chisel stroke. URL=http://s831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/Unclejer/?action=view¤t=filecutter.gif] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerbud Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Heres an interesting drawing of a machine that Leonardo da Vinci invented to cut files. The table automatically advanced the file blank after each hammer/chisel stroke. URL=http://s831.photobucket.com/albums/zz237/Unclejer/?action=view¤t=filecutter.gif] I have really enjoyed this topic. The shear notion of investing $500 of time to make a $3 item has sparked my interest. Totally relegating file-making to an artistic achievement. I have some tool steel flatbar destined for this later this week. The Da Vinci reference was perfect. I have a book of his journal drawings. One of my favorite inventions was the large screw auger type lift pumps for raising water from one containment pool up to the next. My daily commute takes me by the City of Dayton, TN water treatment plant. They use twin screws of this type to lift non other than sewage. His magnificent design, in this most "dignified" service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KST1-Derek Fultz Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Check out this thread over on the Metal Artist Forum http://www.metalartistforum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3677&highlight=file+cutting KNeilson goes all the way on file making! I found it very informative. -Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukellos Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'll buy mine, thank'e kindly. But if a fella ever needed an odd-shaped file for a particular job.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 An interesting thread this, think I'l file it for future reference. (Insert long groan here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 If da Vinci is just too Johny-come-lately for you Theophilus discusses making them in his 1120 A.D. "Divers Arts as I recall, including hardening them by greasing them and wrapping them in goatskin and then covering it all with well kneaded clay and heating---a case hardening techinique! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukellos Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I've heard of a similar case hardening method. It was for the frizzen (sparking steel) on a flintlock firearm. Instructions were to wrap the frizzen in leather and then clay and put it into a hot fire for about 45 minutes to an hour. It also cautioned that if the hardening went all the way through the metal it would cause the piece to break up. I've never tried it. I harden the frizzens on my flintlocks with KASENIT. It does just fine and one treatment is good for a couple of hundred shots or so. I know that doesn't sound like much but a couple of hundred shots with a flintlock takes some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim McCoy Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 FYI, Alexander Weygers, in his book, "The Complete Modern Blacksmith", pgs 255-256 has some instructions about making files/rasps and shows a jig for file making. IMHOP this may not be a cost effective task, but anything that teaches us better hand/eye coordination and patience is a good thing. Others have said this better, but craftsmanship comes from time, endless hours of mundane practice, steady hands, the patience of a saint, a desire to make the work meaningful in and of itself and a sincere disregard for the nay-saying of others. All of us recognize craftmanship and those of us that dabble in the black work should appreciate more than casual observers what is involved in making something out of iron and steel. Making a file or polishing a hammer face to a mirror finish are not so far apart ... I for one, need to know how to do both. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 A friend of mine makes files. He made the file makers hammer as well. He can make a double cut file in about 10 min. I have tried it and, although I am not great at it I could make a useable file. His files are quite good at least I think so. I will see if can get him to post a video or the like. brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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