Fe-Wood Posted May 5, 2010 Author Share Posted May 5, 2010 Phil- flatten down the billet until its about 1/4" -5/16" then grind or drill holes about 1/3 to 1/2 way through to form the pattern. Then flatten to your desired thickness. 1/16" is fine, I haven't gone any thinner than that myself. I don't see a reason you can't go thinner as long as you don't melt it away or work harden it to much. Do you have a rolling mill? for me- The fun part is experimenting with the different cut sizes and widths and how they become different grains when flattened. As always- Show pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted May 7, 2010 Share Posted May 7, 2010 I looked up some metallurgy on money and found that nickles are the same Ni-Cu composition as the silver portion of quarters. I also found that by the time you plannish the detail off the face of a nickle it is about the same size as a quarter. If my daughter naps like she should (hahaha, hasn't been happening lately) I will have a try with quarters and nickles and see if I can get more silver color showing than the previous examples. I will take some mid process pics this time. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 Well, I tried again, and got something pretty this time! I planished some nickles till the face was gone, making them about the size of quarters. I then caged with 1/4x1 a36 and some tie wire, tightened the tie wire with a flat screwdriver twisting the cage tighter. You need at least 4 wraps of wire on each end to do this. My stack split into two where a weld failed to take, possibly due to the weeks between cleaning and stacking, and putting them in the fire. I should have recleaned the stack. I did add some boric acid to the outside thinking it would help...I don't think it did. I worked the smaller half into a rod, then twisted it forged it back to squarish, and tried to make one of the hearts Brian Brazeal demonstrated. The rod broke when I tried bending it the first time, the second time it started to delaminate in the bend as I was drawing the ends out. I stopped with material to try again once more. The other half I spread to form a bar about 1x3/16 and 4 inches long. I made this little trinket for my wife from about an inch of that bar. I expect her to wear it as a necklace on one of the chains she already has. The pattern is lovely, but I need to get out a better camera than my phone so I can photograph it. I'll post that tomorrow. I am trying to figure out how to affix a ring for a chain, should I drill the edge and use a new SS split ring from my tackle box...or would some other method look better and be relatively simple? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 4, 2010 Share Posted June 4, 2010 OK, I going to guess that your SS is not the same as my SS and go with, yes a stainless steel split ring will be just fine. I couldn't see any pattern as you said but that is a very pleasing shape, nice work. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 5, 2010 Share Posted June 5, 2010 I got the good camera back from my wife who was possessed to take it to work with her...probably knowing I would work on unpacking from our trip looking for it. I used a tripod and took some pictures, these two look good. The stainless steel split rings look like tiny key rings...if I can find them, they are not with my fly tying kit. Phil After looking close at the big pictures, I have a fair bit of polishing to do! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 Phil nice job on the heart. I used a rivit to attach mine together. Was a lot easer to hold together. I also used a gas forge made the color change much more visable. After welding I shaped into a square bar twisted and flattened again. That put the edges of the coins through the middle. hope that helpes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 7, 2010 Share Posted June 7, 2010 I also used a gas forge made the color change much more visable. So after polishing you put it in the forge for a few seconds to oxidize the copper? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 8, 2010 Share Posted June 8, 2010 no phil I made the billet. polished and then etched in muritac acid. That was it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebenton2ph Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 So, I thought I would do a comparison on a couple different alloys of Nickel Silver. As shown above, the stuff I bought is 65% Copper, 18% Nickel and 17% Zink. Turns out the "common" Nickel used in coinage is 75% Copper and 25% Nickel, no Zink. I hope the addition of Zink isn't going to be a problem. "For modern coinage, many alloys were made and tested in the search for the best substitute for silver. The Swiss and Belgian coins were made of an alloy 75% copper and 25% nickel. That alloy, cupro-nickel, is today the single most common alloy of nickel for coinage in the world." Copied from NiDI Status Report #6: The Colour of Money (1998) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebenton2ph Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Is the make up of the new dollar coins the same as quarters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Not sure about the dollars, but sems way more expensive than quarters comparing the weights. I have been very succesful recently doing this and thought I would share a few tip that worked for me. I tried the nickels mentioned here. and they are a great addition. Planished to the same size as quarters and alternated in a stack. I have done stacks over 3 inches with good results. What I found is the nickels must be flat. no gaps more than a about a few sheets of paper can be between the coins. that is where a nice holder comes in handy. I use 2 steel plates and some bolts. once they are hot and almost thinking about melting I stick the whole shooting match in either the vise or the shop press and give them a good squeeze to about 3/4 their original height. then back in the forge and up to temp. one more squeeze so you are about 5/8 of your starting height. this will make a nice solid chunk that will stay together if you drop it on the floor (on purpose of course). After that I found, despite reason that you must stay nice and orange while moving the material. if the edges start to delaminate, then stop before they get very big and stick them back together.start tapping edgewise to square it up a bit, little blows at first , checking for delam often. I you try to flatten the stack diagonally you get better adhesion and actually more of that wood grain look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Intersting thread with lots of good info! Im thinking of trying Mokume with iron & sterling silver. (ive got 0.020" iron sheet from an old electrical thingy) My gas forge will hold an accurate temperature, and Ive got thermocouples to take some guesswork out of it, Ill probably start with a stack 1.5" cube. What temp should I be shooting for? Sterling silver melts at 893c , should I stay about 50c below that? Would half an hour at temp be enough? Ill heat the billet in clamp plates (possibly in a stainless can), and once its had a soak at temp give it a gentle squeeze under hydraulic press. Anything I should watch out for? would like to get it right first time as there will be $100 of silver in the billet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 would like to get it right first time as there will be $100 of silver in the billet! That's why I used quarters! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 John N, I hope that you take pics of your efforts so we can see how it works out. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 did a demo this weekend on mokume gane here is the piece I did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted June 27, 2010 Share Posted June 27, 2010 Copper and what other metal did you use for this piece and how big is it? Nice pattern you have going there B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted June 28, 2010 Author Share Posted June 28, 2010 Intersting thread with lots of good info! Im thinking of trying Mokume with iron & sterling silver. (ive got 0.020" iron sheet from an old electrical thingy) My gas forge will hold an accurate temperature, and Ive got thermocouples to take some guesswork out of it, Ill probably start with a stack 1.5" cube. What temp should I be shooting for? Sterling silver melts at 893c , should I stay about 50c below that? Would half an hour at temp be enough? Ill heat the billet in clamp plates (possibly in a stainless can), and once its had a soak at temp give it a gentle squeeze under hydraulic press. Anything I should watch out for? would like to get it right first time as there will be $100 of silver in the billet! John- I'm no exprt on Silver and Iron so take what I say with a grain of NA. Iron is significantly harder than slver and melts at a much higher temp. When working you may see that you get more movement in the silver than you want compared to the Iron. Instead of using a press, I would use a vice. I would weld up a 22 or 28 g. "platen cage" to hold the billet together. I would watch the silver and wait until the surface become glossy like a liquid surface and gently clamp it in the vice. I would for sure do a couple test runs with fewer layers (lower cost for failures) until I got the hang of it. GOOD LUCK and show pics :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 bentiron it is nickle and copper it is 6" long and 1" wide Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Thanks for the info! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Found an interesting link. This is the third page, it has temperatures/colors but the first two are very informative too. http://www.mokume.com/book2nded3.html Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 phil nice link I have been thinking about adding brass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Made a batch of Shibuichi this morning. (25% silver 75% copper.) Then proceded to use it and some silver make my first batch of Mokume that didnt use coins. happy with the result! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Nice work! I can't believe I'm asking, Could you show a bigger picture of the second shot? Its hard to see were the metal paterns are. I'm looking forward to getting back to making some Mokome Gane as soon as I get my new press up and running.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I wonder if I could make up some of that with my "dirty silver", that is my silver that has little bits of solder attached? I have about 3/4 of a pound of that on hand. Do you think that much zinc(or little depending on your point of view) would destroy the alloy for Shibuichi? I need to stretch my metal working dollars somewhat or quit making jewelry altogether. It's about the only metal working I get to do these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Nice work! I can't believe I'm asking, Could you show a bigger picture of the second shot? Its hard to see were the metal paterns are. I'm looking forward to getting back to making some Mokome Gane as soon as I get my new press up and running.... FE-wood- sorry, the second picture was just the straight Shibuichi, no pattern in it. It was what I used for the coppery colored parts in the first picture. What kind of press are you getting going? I have been thinking about getting a little hand crank roller mill just for mokume. I often use my hydraulic press but just for the initial weld, then off to the hammer and anvil. I know I would have much less waste if I had a litle roller. Bentiron- If I were you I would try, my guess is the solder will drastically reduce the melting point. But a little batch would probably tell you. All I made was a couple grams worth for this experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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